McCain: D'Oh!! - Page 5

BillCosby · 05-21-2008, 10:24 AM

Yep......... He is nutty & scary..........

There are more registered dems but ppl switch around come voting time......... Locally many ppl are rep but are now going to go dem......

Of course you have kentucky & w virginy........ but you can't have everything.......lol

julia · 05-22-2008, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julia

That's actually highly unlikely since there are more registered Democrats than Republicans in the US as a whole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisbb

both parties are farces, but this man is dangerous. i hope you are right

The Reps count on voters feeling overwhelmed and therefore not voting. Michael Moore spoke about it in Sicko.

Ppl are fed up and sick of being lied to. The record breaking voter reg and voter turn out are great to see.

Dem voters are deciding whether they want same old Dems, or new way Dems.

Their choice is becoming clear.

julia · 05-22-2008, 01:19 PM

McCain Confronted With New Iran Gaffe, Gets Facts Wrong Again

The Huffington Post May 20, 2008

Yesterday, Time's Joe Klein noted that he could find no evidence that Sen. Barack Obama had ever specifically said he would negotiate with Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:

Quote:

On Friday, I promised to check into whether Obama had ever said that he would negotiate--specifically, by name -- with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Indeed, according to the crack Time Magazine research department and the Obama campaign, he never has. He did say that he would negotiate with the Iranian leadership -- but, on matters of foreign policy and Iran's nuclear program, the guy in charge is the Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei. As of today, John McCain was still accusing Obama of wanting to negotiate with Ahmadinejad. Why doesn't the McCain campaign and other assorted Republicans ever accuse Obama of wanting to negotiate with Khamenei? Well, because Khamenei isn't quite the flagrant anti-Semite Ahmadinejad is...and, as we keep hearing, Obama has a Jewish problem.

Later in the day, Klein confronted McCain with this question at a press conference. For a foreign policy "expert," McCain clearly has a pattern of getting the basic facts wrong. McCain insisted that ultimate political authority in Iran rests with Ahmadinejad -- even mocking Klein when he challenged him on it. In fact, according to the CIA's World Factbook, ultimate political authority in Iran rests with Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, not the president.

Here's the exchange:

KLEIN: I've done some research, and um -

MCCAIN: I have too.

KLEIN: Also checked, also checked with the Obama campaign and he never, he's never sai -- mentioned Ahmadinejad directly by name. He did say he would negotiate with the leaders, but as you know - Ayatollah,

MCCAIN: (Laughing) Ahmadinejad is, was the leader.

KLEIN: But if -

MCCAIN: Maybe I'm mistaken.

KLEIN: Maybe you are, because -

MCCAIN: Maybe. I don't think so though.

KLEIN: The Supreme, you know, according to most diplomatic experts, the Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei is the guy who's in charge of Iranian foreign policy and also in charge of the nuclear program, but you never mention him. Do you, you know, um, why do you always keep talking about Ahmadinejad since he doesn't have power in that, in that realm?

MCCAIN: Oh I thin-Again, I respectfully disagree. When he's the person that comes to the United Nations and declares his country's policy is the extermination of the state of Israel, quote, in his words, wipe them off of the map, then I know that he is speaking for the Iranian government and articulating their policy and he was elected and is running for reelection as the leader of that country. Yes sir, go ahead.

NEW REPORTER: One more quest-

MCCAIN: I mean, the fact is he's the acknowledged leader of that country and you may disagree, but that's a uh, that's your right to do so, but I think if you asked any average American who the leader of Iran is, I think they'd know. Go ahead. Or anyone who's well-versed in the issue.

Ilan Goldenberg of the National Security Network notes:

Quote:

Let's be clear: Iran has a very complex system of government with varying institutions, but at the top of it sits Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who essentially has only accountable to the Council of Guardians made up of clerics, many of whom are appointed by Khamenei. So, Ahmadinejad is not the leader. And as the Council on Foreign Relations explains, especially in the area of foreign policy, Ahmadinejad has very little influence.

On top of that as Klein points out, the President's job is to educate the public on questions of policy. So if the "average American" thinks that Ahmadinejad is the ultimate leader of Iran, it's up to the President to dissuade them of this notion - not reinforce it. Back in 2002 more then half of Americans thought Saddam was responsible for 9/11 and President Bush did nothing to disprove this assumption (In fact, while never directly claiming that Saddam was responsible for 9/11 the Administration did everything it could to reinforce the notion). That doesn't mean our policy should be based on those false assumptions.

video of exchange in link:
McCain Confronted With New Iran Gaffe, Gets Facts Wrong Again (VIDEO) - Politics on The Huffington Post

BillCosby · 05-22-2008, 05:24 PM

ImusWallower · 05-22-2008, 10:25 PM

i want to see Mud spin this

julia · 05-23-2008, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisbb

i want to see Mud spin this

:crickets:

CosmicRocker · 05-23-2008, 05:26 AM

Al-Khamenei would clean Barack's Clock.

Look what happened to Kennedy, when he went up against a seasoned leader " without preconditions"
Obama used this meeting as an example!! - I wonder if he has a clue?

The Swamp: Should Obama rethink JFK-Khrushchev?

JFK's meeting was disastrous. So why does Obama use it to defend talking to foes?
Posted May 22, 2008 11:48 AM

by Frank James

Sen. Barack Obama, who received his undergraduate degree from Columbia University, took a hit today from two other Columbia men, Nathan Thrall and Jesse James Wilkins.

In a New York Times op-ed piece, Nathan Thrall, a journalist whose bio says he has a masters degree from Columbia, and Jesse James Wilkins, a doctoral candidate there, point to a problem with Obama's proposition that President John Kennedy talked with Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev.

Obama has noted Kennedy's meeting to defend his own stated willingness to meet without preconditions in the first year of his presidency with the leaders of nations adversarial to the U.S. As Thrall and Wilkins note, Kennedy's meeting was an unmitigated disaster. Kennedy viewed it that way himself.

Kennedy's aides convinced the press at the time that behind closed doors the president was performing well, but American diplomats in attendance, including the ambassador to the Soviet Union, later said they were shocked that Kennedy had taken so much abuse. Paul Nitze, the assistant secretary of defense, said the meeting was "just a disaster." Khrushchev's aide, after the first day, said the American president seemed "very inexperienced, even immature." Khrushchev agreed, noting that the youthful Kennedy was "too intelligent and too weak." The Soviet leader left Vienna elated -- and with a very low opinion of the leader of the free world.

Kennedy's assessment of his own performance was no less severe. Only a few minutes after parting with Khrushchev, Kennedy, a World War II veteran, told James Reston of The New York Times that the summit meeting had been the "roughest thing in my life." Kennedy went on: "He just beat the hell out of me. I've got a terrible problem if he thinks I'm inexperienced and have no guts. Until we remove those ideas we won't get anywhere with him."

A little more than two months later, Khrushchev gave the go-ahead to begin erecting what would become the Berlin Wall. Kennedy had resigned himself to it, telling his aides in private that "a wall is a hell of a lot better than a war." The following spring, Khrushchev made plans to "throw a hedgehog at Uncle Sam's pants": nuclear missiles in Cuba. And while there were many factors that led to the missile crisis, it is no exaggeration to say that the impression Khrushchev formed at Vienna -- of Kennedy as ineffective -- was among them.

Historian Robert Dallek, in his eminently informative and entertaining Kennedy biography "An Unfinished Life" says the Soviet general secretary's "behavior irritated and frustrated Kennedy, since Krushchev did a good job of seeming somewhat unhinged, at turns, congenial then bellicose with the young president.

As Dallek writes:

"A British journalist who saw (Kennedy) as he escorted Krushchev to his car thought (Kennedy) looked 'dazed.' Pacing the floor of his bedroom in the embassy, (Kennedy) exclaimed, "He treated me like a little boy, like a little boy.' "

Kennedy, who had the fatigue-causing Addison's Disease would try to maintain his energy levels with injections of steroids among other medications and as Dallek notes, his performance might have been affected somewhat by his serious medical issues.

According to Dallek:

"A long day under much tension certainly accounts for most of Kennedy's weariness by the early evening, but we cannot discount the impact of (Dr.) Jacobson's chemicals on him as well. As the day wore on and an injection Jacobson had given him just before he met Khrushchev in the early afternoon wore off, Kennedy may have lost the emotional and physical edge initially provided by the shot. But more important than Kennedy's energy level was the fundamental difference in approach that each leader brought to the summit. Kennedy's eagerness to be reasonable and encourage understanding was no match for Khrushchev's determination to debate and out-argue the less experienced president."

Kennedy left Vienna convinced the U.S. had to take steps to show Krushchev that he meant business:

Here's Dallek again:

"He now needed to convince Khrushchev that he could not be pushed around, and the best place currently to make U.S. power credible seemed to be in Vietnam."

Pretty chilling, isn't it, that Kennedy decided to compensate for his inadequate performance with Khrushchev by pushing forward in Vietnam?

Given all this, it's curious that Obama hasn't been more circumspect in how he's used the Kennedy example, especially since the shortcoming of that meeting are well documented and have been known for decades.

What's more, Obama has had first-hand access to Sen. Ted Kennedy and Ted Sorenson, Kennedy's long-time adviser, and the American foreign-policy experts with his campaign certainly are aware of how disastrous the Kennedy-Khrushchev meeting was.

Kanadesaga · 05-23-2008, 06:12 AM

Yea and something at that meeting with Krushchev, left him with the feeling that Kennedy would fuck them up over the missiles. so again, refresh my memory, how long have those missiles been in cuba now?

BillCosby · 05-23-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

Yea and something at that meeting with Krushchev, left him with the feeling that Kennedy would fuck them up over the missiles. so again, refresh my memory, how long have those missiles been in cuba now?

Some ppl will even go so far as to drag their own demi-Gawd Kennedy into this......lol My word, the hate for Obama leaves no closets unopened nor no slight unmentioned....

I guess we are to presume from this that Obama is going to learn nothing from history & is just destine to repeat it since he is so inexperienced.... I guess that is opposed to the others running that are making presidential decisions & meeting w/ all the right ppl......

ImusWallower · 05-23-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julia

:crickets:

yup, big shock huh?

05-21-2008, 10:24 AM	#41 (permalink)
BillCosby The party of the pissed!! Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,504 My Mood: Thanks: 183 Thanked 119 Times in 92 Posts	Yep......... He is nutty & scary.......... There are more registered dems but ppl switch around come voting time......... Locally many ppl are rep but are now going to go dem...... Of course you have kentucky & w virginy........ but you can't have everything.......lol __________________ Preventive war is not war!!!!Counter-terror is not terror
	Top

05-22-2008, 05:24 PM	#44 (permalink)
BillCosby The party of the pissed!! Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,504 My Mood: Thanks: 183 Thanked 119 Times in 92 Posts	__________________ Preventive war is not war!!!!Counter-terror is not terror
	Top

05-22-2008, 10:25 PM	#45 (permalink)
ImusWallower Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,357 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 135 Thanked 114 Times in 96 Posts	i want to see Mud spin this
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05-23-2008, 05:26 AM	#47 (permalink)
CosmicRocker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: lost in a lost world Posts: 8,036 My Mood: Thanks: 142 Thanked 108 Times in 86 Posts	Al-Khamenei would clean Barack's Clock. Look what happened to Kennedy, when he went up against a seasoned leader " without preconditions" Obama used this meeting as an example!! - I wonder if he has a clue? The Swamp: Should Obama rethink JFK-Khrushchev? JFK's meeting was disastrous. So why does Obama use it to defend talking to foes? Posted May 22, 2008 11:48 AM by Frank James Sen. Barack Obama, who received his undergraduate degree from Columbia University, took a hit today from two other Columbia men, Nathan Thrall and Jesse James Wilkins. In a New York Times op-ed piece, Nathan Thrall, a journalist whose bio says he has a masters degree from Columbia, and Jesse James Wilkins, a doctoral candidate there, point to a problem with Obama's proposition that President John Kennedy talked with Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev. Obama has noted Kennedy's meeting to defend his own stated willingness to meet without preconditions in the first year of his presidency with the leaders of nations adversarial to the U.S. As Thrall and Wilkins note, Kennedy's meeting was an unmitigated disaster. Kennedy viewed it that way himself. Kennedy's aides convinced the press at the time that behind closed doors the president was performing well, but American diplomats in attendance, including the ambassador to the Soviet Union, later said they were shocked that Kennedy had taken so much abuse. Paul Nitze, the assistant secretary of defense, said the meeting was "just a disaster." Khrushchev's aide, after the first day, said the American president seemed "very inexperienced, even immature." Khrushchev agreed, noting that the youthful Kennedy was "too intelligent and too weak." The Soviet leader left Vienna elated -- and with a very low opinion of the leader of the free world. Kennedy's assessment of his own performance was no less severe. Only a few minutes after parting with Khrushchev, Kennedy, a World War II veteran, told James Reston of The New York Times that the summit meeting had been the "roughest thing in my life." Kennedy went on: "He just beat the hell out of me. I've got a terrible problem if he thinks I'm inexperienced and have no guts. Until we remove those ideas we won't get anywhere with him." A little more than two months later, Khrushchev gave the go-ahead to begin erecting what would become the Berlin Wall. Kennedy had resigned himself to it, telling his aides in private that "a wall is a hell of a lot better than a war." The following spring, Khrushchev made plans to "throw a hedgehog at Uncle Sam's pants": nuclear missiles in Cuba. And while there were many factors that led to the missile crisis, it is no exaggeration to say that the impression Khrushchev formed at Vienna -- of Kennedy as ineffective -- was among them. Historian Robert Dallek, in his eminently informative and entertaining Kennedy biography "An Unfinished Life" says the Soviet general secretary's "behavior irritated and frustrated Kennedy, since Krushchev did a good job of seeming somewhat unhinged, at turns, congenial then bellicose with the young president. As Dallek writes: "A British journalist who saw (Kennedy) as he escorted Krushchev to his car thought (Kennedy) looked 'dazed.' Pacing the floor of his bedroom in the embassy, (Kennedy) exclaimed, "He treated me like a little boy, like a little boy.' " Kennedy, who had the fatigue-causing Addison's Disease would try to maintain his energy levels with injections of steroids among other medications and as Dallek notes, his performance might have been affected somewhat by his serious medical issues. According to Dallek: "A long day under much tension certainly accounts for most of Kennedy's weariness by the early evening, but we cannot discount the impact of (Dr.) Jacobson's chemicals on him as well. As the day wore on and an injection Jacobson had given him just before he met Khrushchev in the early afternoon wore off, Kennedy may have lost the emotional and physical edge initially provided by the shot. But more important than Kennedy's energy level was the fundamental difference in approach that each leader brought to the summit. Kennedy's eagerness to be reasonable and encourage understanding was no match for Khrushchev's determination to debate and out-argue the less experienced president." Kennedy left Vienna convinced the U.S. had to take steps to show Krushchev that he meant business: Here's Dallek again: "He now needed to convince Khrushchev that he could not be pushed around, and the best place currently to make U.S. power credible seemed to be in Vietnam." Pretty chilling, isn't it, that Kennedy decided to compensate for his inadequate performance with Khrushchev by pushing forward in Vietnam? Given all this, it's curious that Obama hasn't been more circumspect in how he's used the Kennedy example, especially since the shortcoming of that meeting are well documented and have been known for decades. What's more, Obama has had first-hand access to Sen. Ted Kennedy and Ted Sorenson, Kennedy's long-time adviser, and the American foreign-policy experts with his campaign certainly are aware of how disastrous the Kennedy-Khrushchev meeting was. __________________ Traveling Wilburys (l to r) Bob Dylan, Jeff Lynne, Tom Petty, George Harrison, Roy Orbison
	Top

05-23-2008, 06:12 AM	#48 (permalink)
Kanadesaga Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NYS - Devil's country Posts: 7,080 My Mood: Blog Entries: 6 Thanks: 232 Thanked 93 Times in 67 Posts	Yea and something at that meeting with Krushchev, left him with the feeling that Kennedy would fuck them up over the missiles. so again, refresh my memory, how long have those missiles been in cuba now? __________________ Bill has the Blues Saturdays 10 pm to Midnight est www.whws.fm Thanksgiving Show 9pm to 1 am
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