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Old 06-25-2008, 12:11 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRS112 View Post
lol...no 10,000 didn't die....I just took the hyperbole in stride
WHEW...

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Old 06-25-2008, 01:24 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DRS112 View Post
To elaborate on the stagflation deal....here is just one example of how higher taxes makes things worse besides us paying more for goods....as taxes increase the incentive to finance the company through debt increases....meaning the company will seek to decrease equity...which means less investments for the rest of us...it also means that interest rates will be pushed higher as there is a higher demand for borrowing...so now our ability to invest is limited(because the investments available will be limited and because we have less to invest),
You know I don't get the Harvard MBA mumbo jumbo. Let's see how higher taxes accomplishes things like universal health care. See: Europe. Let's see how spending 7% of what we currently spend on "defense" would accomplish. Let's see how we could become stronger if we had the appropriate priorities.


Quote:
we're paying more for goods and have less disposable income AND we're paying higher interest rates making large purchases more difficult...houses, cars etc....now...I'm sure you can imagine what happens from there to the demand for goods....
Yes we are paying more, getting less and this is a good thing? Because this is the system you advocate right now. corps pay a fraction of they taxes they should. Yea 35% I know.

And when people have minimum wage jobs they can't buy extras, like gas and food in the same month! Much less disposable income to invest in the market and get rich like everybody else.



Quote:
and what businesses do when less people are buying their goods....
Let's talk how American workers have been fucked by all that legalese Harvard MBA mumbo jumbo! all in the name of the holy stockholder.
And what are consumers left with?

They get to buy cheap Chinese made shit from WalMart!



dude I am a socialist, protectionist, America first type guy. and if we had our shit together, we could be that "shining example on the hill" to the rest of the world. and accomplish more to spread freedom than a thousand Iraqi invasions, no matter how good for business they are.

But you wouldn't serve your master; PROFIT.
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Last edited by Kanadesaga; 06-25-2008 at 02:01 AM. Reason: DRS that's the editorial "you"
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Old 06-25-2008, 02:23 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Americans reward failure, yet expect success. If the party benefits from terrorism, voting for them means more terrorism.
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Old 06-25-2008, 05:22 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by eagleclaw View Post
V, I noticed you didn't have that little Obama picture near your name.

Is that what all the "cool" kids are wearing this season?
I wasn't trying to pigeon-hole VK, for your info. I was simply trying to get some back up info out of him. See if he had any evidence to back his claim. He apparently does not, and just felt like saying Obama will be seen as a humanitarian for Africa simply based on his color.

Sorry to disappoint you but he's pigeon-holed himself with his statement.
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Old 06-25-2008, 07:12 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadesaga View Post
You know I don't get the Harvard MBA mumbo jumbo. Let's see how higher taxes accomplishes things like universal health care. See: Europe. Let's see how spending 7% of what we currently spend on "defense" would accomplish. Let's see how we could become stronger if we had the appropriate priorities.
Europes transformation has come on the heels of very serious market reforms...most notably the easing of trade restrictions, labor laws, taxes and govt. programs. I'm not a harvard MBA by any means....and yes I do agree that we need to drastically cut spending especially on defense....but what you're advocating is "punishment for the sake of it....saying that there needs to be a high tax rate on corporations, not because the money would be needed after the defense spending is cut, not becuse it's the best thing for the economy, but out of hatred


Quote:
Yes we are paying more, getting less and this is a good thing? Because this is the system you advocate right now. corps pay a fraction of they taxes they should. Yea 35% I know.
A fraction of what they should? Is that based on a gut feeling? I just typed an entire post about what happens with reasons to back it up

Quote:
And when people have minimum wage jobs they can't buy extras, like gas and food in the same month! Much less disposable income to invest in the market and get rich like everybody else.
Granted.........and...........




Quote:
Let's talk how American workers have been fucked by all that legalese Harvard MBA mumbo jumbo! all in the name of the holy stockholder.
And what are consumers left with?

They get to buy cheap Chinese made shit from WalMart!



dude I am a socialist, protectionist, America first type guy. and if we had our shit together, we could be that "shining example on the hill" to the rest of the world. and accomplish more to spread freedom than a thousand Iraqi invasions, no matter how good for business they are.

But you wouldn't serve your master; PROFIT.
but still...you're still saying you would throw everything out the window to exact you vengence on corporations...screw everything else.....

I'm an America first kinda guy too in the sense that I want greater prosperity on a whole for America...we just have different ways of accomplishing the same goal......

Mine just happen to be based in reality
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:03 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Comicsartist View Post
I wasn't trying to pigeon-hole VK, for your info. I was simply trying to get some back up info out of him. See if he had any evidence to back his claim. He apparently does not, and just felt like saying Obama will be seen as a humanitarian for Africa simply based on his color.

Sorry to disappoint you but he's pigeon-holed himself with his statement.
Obama has family in Africa. Is that about race? Is everything about race with you people?
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Old 06-25-2008, 11:08 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Obama has family in Africa. Is that about race? Is everything about race with you people?

Only when it can be used against you. It's ok when they make blank statements..weird, i know. Must be the
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:00 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
Americans reward failure, yet expect success. If the party benefits from terrorism, voting for them means more terrorism.
A society will get more of whatever turns a profit. That includes private security, foreclosures, disease, divorce, war, death and unhappiness...note the booming "self-help" industry.

The American GOVERNMENT rewards failure. Americans reward crime and celebrity...note Wesley Snipes' new booze endorsement.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:12 PM   #69 (permalink)
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I'm not arguing that laws shouldn't be just....I'm just saying that while what happened is VERY VERY unfortunate...what is there that could be done? I'm sure you'll admit that it wasn't intentional...I'm also sure that you'll admit that there is no way to test every product by the govt....so what are you left with? Punishing those that would do it intentionally...which is already illegal....and we also have civil courts to deal with the unintentional stuff....


Some stuff is based on a learning curve...look over the years at the stuff that was around when we were kids that only later did we figure out that it was a stupid idea.....lawn dart etc....it's not like some corportation said we want to poke kids eyes out....it ended up happening though and we/they said Oh Shit!! No more lawn darts...

hindsight is great.....
This isn't about hindsight or the popularity of lawn darts during our Wonderbread years. I've always found the paradoxical admiration that many American supply siders hold for China, a Communist police state which regulates speech and thought but allows certain sectors of its command economy to run amok, the ultimate proof of their myopia and short term thinking. The few Chinese elites who've actually embraced raw capitalism are simply acting out the way manufacturers did in the 19th and early 20th century, also known as the good ole days to so many free marketeers and right wing religious kooks. It should come as no surprise that a country with no concept of human rights would have no consumer protection. China only stops selling their shitty products to the West when it gets caught and called on it. All the lead painted toys and anti-freeze laced toothpaste remains for sale in their domestic market. Add to that an American trend in Federal government where people who were once at odds with the Consumer Products Safety Commission while in the private sector are now running the agencies themselves with rules designed to curtail any protective influence, all in the name of almighty profit. It's not the consumer who counts today, it's the shareholder. Unbridled capitalism leads ultimately to the few getting rich at the expense and misery of the many, no matter how cool you think Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand fucking are!
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:40 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRS112 View Post
Europes transformation has come on the heels of very serious market reforms...most notably the easing of trade restrictions, labor laws, taxes and govt. programs. I'm not a harvard MBA by any means....and yes I do agree that we need to drastically cut spending especially on defense....but what you're advocating is "punishment for the sake of it....saying that there needs to be a high tax rate on corporations, not because the money would be needed after the defense spending is cut, not becuse it's the best thing for the economy, but out of hatred
No, I think corporations should pay for exporting jobs out of the country. I think they should treat other countries as our own and use the safest and cleanest technologies when they do employee in other nations. I think they should pay their fair share of taxes, not hide them in off shore company accounts and that bullshit. I think their employees should get health care before their CEO gets that next million dollar raise. Call me silly.




Quote:
A fraction of what they should? Is that based on a gut feeling? I just typed an entire post about what happens with reasons to back it up
You typed economic Theory.


Quote:
Granted.........and...........
Nevermind Profit is god. Nothing and no one else matters, just the holy stockholder.



Quote:
but still...you're still saying you would throw everything out the window to exact you vengence on corporations...screw everything else.....

The consumer has been screwed fopr a long time, so has the American taxpayer. But fuck them, right? Profit is god, all hail the holy stockholder.




Quote:
I'm an America first kinda guy too in the sense that I want greater prosperity on a whole for America...we just have different ways of accomplishing the same goal......

Mine just happen to be based in reality

So how's your reality? Mine and millions more sucks. $4/gal gas, $3 gal milk. Mortgage foreclosures, etc etc etc

In my reality, corporations, like UBS and their gov't criminal accomplices, like Phil Gramm, are responsible for most of the bad shit happenning right now. Oh that's right, Profit is god, all hail the holy stockholder.
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