Insipid

Yes, it is cheaper. We ALL pay for health care eventually because we all get sick eventually. The problem is how much it will cost when we get sick. If we have health care and get treated in the early stages, the treatment is relatively cheap. If we have to wait to go to an emergency room it's expensive.

We're ALL paying for universal health care now. We pay more for health care as a percentage of our GDP than any industrialized county. And yet we have less health care. This is largely because we do not have universal health care.

If you want to actually SEE a model for health care similar to what Hillary's is look at the movie Sicko. The British system works on a model very close to Hillary's. This is where private insurers have to compete with public insurers and this makes sure all of them save money. Than there's the French plan, also shown in the movie, that calls for state sponsored health care for all. BOTH plans work far better than our plan and both cost far less.

DanS.

The British system is working all that well either...people are dying waiting for cancer treatment.

yeah we all get sick eventually....but by that time usually we've chosen to purchase health insurance or our employer has provided it...but again...20-somethings...who are not likely to get sick are not saving a dime...you're charging them thousands of dollars a year for something they are not going to use....

Insipid

It IS cheaper for all because 20 somethings eventually become 60 somethings and (hopefully) 80 somethings. Then there's the 20 something that just gets cancer because he gets the losing end of some genetic lottery. The fact that he's paying in, or that the health 20 year old is paying in makes it less costly for all. It's the same principle of social security. It doesn't work if only the people who are about to retire pay in.

Insipid

The british system and the canadian system work FAR better than our health care system. Anecdotal evidence of people dying waiting for health care system is just as stupid as anecdotal evidence of the Shah flying here for his heart treatment. The fact is that there isn't long waiting lists for urgent care there. In fact i can tell you without doubt that there IS very long waiting lists to see specialists in the United States. The british system costs less and has better outcomes than our system. Period.

Again, your phraseology put the lie to your whole statement. A 20 something is not LIKELY to get sick. Insurance works on the principle that everyone pays in regardless of the likelihood of your using the product. For instance, i haven't had a ticket in 10 years and i haven't been in a car accident in over 20 years. I'm not LIKELY to use car insurance. Yet i still MUST buy it every month. If i was allowed to opt out it would be far more expensive for everyone. If ONLY the bad drivers bought insurance it would be too costly for those with a few speeding tickets to drive.

The same is true for health care. If only the sick and elderly bought it the price would be FAR too astronomical for regular people to afford.

Now, because of my good driving i don't pay a lot for insurance. And i do believe that is correct. I don't propose that a 20 something athlete pay the same amount as a 60 year old overweight chain smoker. But neither does Hilary's plan.

DanS.

Patients 'die waiting', doctor claims


Concerned about delays : Dr Penny
Lives are being lost because waiting lists for heart problems are getting longer and the service in Wales is out-dated, a cardiologist has claimed.
A British Cardiac Society working group is to look at claims that Wales is lagging behind England.

A leading Welsh cardiologist, who will represent Wales on that group, has told BBC Wales his waiting lists are increasing.

Health Minister Jane Hutt said an increase in screening had identified more people who needed treatment.

Dr Liam Penny said that two years after a UK-wide framework was established - setting a waiting time target of three months for patient investigation - there has been little progress.

Dr Penny, a cardiologist at the University Hospital of Wales, Cardiff, said that many of his patients are waiting up to two years just to get on the waiting list for surgery and the problem is getting worse.

Patients in some areas of London, on the other hand, wait just a matter of weeks for the cardiologist investigation needed to get on the list for surgery, he said.

The biggest problems we face are our very long waiting lists," Dr Penny said.

I think there is no doubt that the system we run at the moment has failed individual patients

Dr Clive Weston

"To get on the waiting list for surgery, patients will have waited at least two years.

BBC NEWS | UK | Wales | Patients 'die waiting', doctor claims


Some cancer patients are dying because the NHS cannot treat them soon enough, a BBC investigation has revealed.

BBC News | HEALTH | Patients 'die waiting for treatment'

Two studies into mortality while awaiting cardiac surgery are published in this issue1 2: one from New Zealand and one from the Netherlands. These countries have long waits for routine surgery, as does the UKthe median out of hospital waiting time of 146 days for surgery in New Zealand compares with a current median wait of 175 days for routine surgery at Wythenshawe Hospital in Manchester, UK. The mortality while waiting for coronary artery bypass surgery (CABG) in New Zealand was 2.6%. In the Netherlands, where waits were somewhat shorter, mortality was 0.6% for CABG and 1.4% for combined CABG and valve surgery. This mortality was despite the usual attempts to categorise patients according to the perceived risk of waiting for surgery.
Death on the waiting list for cardiac surgery -- BRIDGEWATER 81 (6): 564 -- Heart

and it goes on and on...just use the google.

Malkavian

You are only required to buy liability insurance based on the premise that you may harm someone. You are not required to buy full coverage because if you get your car busted, that's your business. Liability insurance laws are not based on the idea 'hey, it's cheaper if everyone has it'.

Lets extend this a bit. I wanna Ferrari. It's a nice car. Can i force you to buy one so that i will get a discount? I mean, if everyone bought a Ferrari, they would be cheaper through mass production. Everybody wins, except those who want a Lotus... Or a bicycle. Or anything else but a Ferrari

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Woof!

Heretic

Insipid's a supporter of the Alien queen? Not much of a ssurprise there. But- from what I've seen POHP quoted of him, he completely dodges the question of getting coverage or service from this manditory insurance.

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"In space no one can hear you scream. in D.C. it won't matter..." -Clinton Resurrection: The Alien Queen lives!