guest1234567

Well, Hawaii VOTED to be a state. They weren't a state when Pearl Harbor was bombed and they didn't have to become a state.

MarkMiller

The vote has historically been proven to have been rigged and a complete fraud. Votes? People don't vote to loose there independence. Hawaii was filled with whites on purpose to gain that vote.

Votes. Please, what do votes mean in this country.

guest1234567

I lived there for 4.5 years. My wife's family lived and was born there and was there during Pearl Harbor. Nobody's complaining except the fringe. I think it's a bit much to say it was a fraud, the were only given the options of statehood or territory-not independence. The vote went for statehood by a wide margin.

But they were a territory for 60 years and if big biz was to have a say, they would have stayed a territory.

Unlike, say, Puerto Rico who voted to remain a commonwealth and basically has an open invitation to do whatever they please; state, commonwealth, or independence.

chambers92

And we have a right to keep it because.....?

I find it very odd that you of all people would feel that way.

MarkMiller

I lived there for 5 years and have a great deal of family there still. It is documented extensively as to how the vote was manipulated and how many native Hawaiians were kept away from that vote.

Big Business is who stole the islands in the first place. Enjoy you sugar.

guest1234567

Big Biz certainly stole it, they would have wanted to keep the cheaper labor in the fields, too. But from what I can tell, the Queen tried to change the constitution to get more power and when that failed she abdicated. Then it was annexed as a territory, and then 60 years later they voted to become a state, rather than stay a territory. But since they were not offered the choice to be their own nation, we'll never know what would have happened.

Do you really think there would have been enough "native" Hawaiians to make a difference in such a landslide (a 17-1 margin)? I'm pretty sure that by the time 1959 came around they were by far the minority on the island. Certainly Philipinos and Samoans and Whites outnumbered the natives by a large amount, as they do now.

MarkMiller

While this is an honest debate and just that....a debate. You have history completely wrong sir. Queen Liliuokalani did not abdicate the thrown. There is a complete history of what happened and President Bill Clinton apologised for America's involvement in the illegal overthrow of the sovereign ruler.

What makes you think there are not enough Native Hawaiians?

BleedingPinky

So what? WTF is the US doing both in Hawaii and Puerto Rico nowadays? Oh yeah, tourism. I suspect around 80% of the natives agree for having their own view of independece But on the same hand, who want´s to live out of the US protectorship? Tough shit. Or maybe not.

guest1234567

As per Puerto Rico, they had an election during Bush I. He flat out said it's up to them what course they wanted to take their country. They chose to remain a commonwealth rather than choose independance or statehood. Although they do represent themselves during things like the Olympics and Miss Universe things.

guest1234567