Some honesty in the drivers license issue - Page 3

CosmicRocker · 11-09-2007, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanton

IT IS NOT! The proposed license would contain the words "NO FOR FEDERAL USE" and will not help one register to vote or get on a plane.

I know the vast majority of Americans oppose it, but I am convinced the vast majority of Americans haven't had it fully explained. They are under the impression that the license given to this folks will be the same license everyone else has.

My complaint here is that when the issue comes up for debate on ANY talking head show, the first step should be a brief, but ACCURATE, description of the proposal: that we are talking about a lower grade license that will not let one board a plane or vote, but will let one drive with insurance and such.

If the discussion on this or any topic is not at least this honest, what good is it?

Excellent Point JD.

I want anyone driving to be liscensed and insured, and the 2 tierd stytem ( not for Federal use) makes the most sence to me..

I was hit by a stolen car, and had to go against the State uninsurance fund ( Maryland)..

I didn't get anywhere near full replacement value for my car, which was totaled.

jdanton · 11-09-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRocker

Excellent Point JD.

I want anyone driving to be liscensed and insured, and the 2 tierd stytem ( not for Federal use) makes the most sence to me..

I was hit by a stolen car, and had to go against the State uninsurance fund ( Maryland)..

I didn't get anywhere near full replacement value for my car, which was totaled.

This issue came up twice this evening as I was surfing channels.

The "news" folks still just refer to this as simply, "..giving drivers licenses to illegal......" No effort is made by the host or the guests to explain the tiers.

To me this is dishonesty to the point of obscenity.

The governors are trying to do something about a situation that shouldn't fall on the governors to do something about.

Past all that, many times in life we only know if something will work or not by trying it. My dad used to tell me that when you glue things together, there's only one way to test the bond; try pulling them apart.

I'd like to see how this works. I'm not sure the illegal immigrant will WANT a license.

It's been in place elsewhere, but I've seen no report as to its success or failure.

OldManOnFire · 11-10-2007, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanton

It's also an example of complaining when one follows the polls (sticking one's finger into the wind) and complaining when they don't follow the polls.

My bet is that if you could explain to the 72% of Americans who oppose this plan exactly what is is and what it is hoped to accomplish, half of them would no longer oppose it. I'd bet 90% of them don't know this has already been done is 7 other states.

I'm annoyed at the people who ask these questions in a deceitful way. It's just plain not honest.

Too many people don't know enough!

Too many people don't care to know enough!

Too many people don't want to know more!

And any time the 'truth' or at least some logic or rationale smacks against people's steadfast opinions or positions, they close down to new information and adamantly defend those positions.

This behavior creates the lack of unity I frequently speak about...

OldManOnFire · 11-10-2007, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Heretic

And she got an honest tough question. The fact she refused to give an honest and tough answer demonstrates clearly why she's just not up for the job and never will be. I recall vividly in 1999 and 2000 all the hype right wingers spewed about Jr. and it's sounding dangerously close to the talking points you cite as issued from Hillary campaign headquarters.

Seriuosly, the more whining you Hillary apologists do about this the more it's going to hurt Hillary's campaign. What she's facing now is nothing compared to what'll happen in the general election campaign. And if she can't stand the heat then she'll get railroaded out of the kitchen regardless.

...has blinded you from any reality...

There are closed minds and open minds in this world, and I will never understand why people like you prefer closed-mindedness?

You put yourself on these boards for discussion but you are not open to a sharing of ideas...you only care to force your opinions and then use vulgarity and insults in a feeble effort to make your points??

I was going to add that by being closed-minded you lose so much in life...but then I realized that you portend to have all the answers so in your world you are doing just fine...

OldManOnFire · 11-10-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanton

This issue came up twice this evening as I was surfing channels.

The "news" folks still just refer to this as simply, "..giving drivers licenses to illegal......" No effort is made by the host or the guests to explain the tiers.

To me this is dishonesty to the point of obscenity..

Sensationalistic news!

Typical headline; Oil shot up to $135.00 per barrel today.

Then once you read the article, about two sentences from the end, you find out that the price came back down to $93. So...if the news people used the headline; Oil ended the day at $93...few people would read the article or watch the TV segment.

It's a desperate attempt of the news people to reach the attention of average people, which in America most people ARE NOT readers and most people survive from sound-bites. It's no wonder to me why sound-bites have become the gospel?

The dumbing of America...

jdanton · 11-10-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldManOnFire

Sensationalistic news!

Typical headline; Oil shot up to $135.00 per barrel today.

Then once you read the article, about two sentences from the end, you find out that the price came back down to $93. So...if the news people used the headline; Oil ended the day at $93...few people would read the article or watch the TV segment.

It's a desperate attempt of the news people to reach the attention of average people, which in America most people ARE NOT readers and most people survive from sound-bites. It's no wonder to me why sound-bites have become the gospel?

The dumbing of America...

And I get attacked by some when all I ask is they be honest in the discussion..

It is fair game to attack Rudy on his 9/11 record. It is fair game to attack him on his marriages, if only because he's gotten the support of a pro marriage religious leader.

It is fair game to attack Hillary on her record and her actual words. It is not "fair" to base the attack on words taken out of context or otherwise misrepresented.

That kind of attack isn't fair to anyone.

OldManOnFire · 11-10-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanton

And I get attacked by some when all I ask is they be honest in the discussion..

It is fair game to attack Rudy on his 9/11 record. It is fair game to attack him on his marriages, if only because he's gotten the support of a pro marriage religious leader.

It is fair game to attack Hillary on her record and her actual words. It is not "fair" to base the attack on words taken out of context or otherwise misrepresented.

That kind of attack isn't fair to anyone.

We develop our opinions and positions based on experiences, factual information, Fox news, or the Ouija board.

They become our personal beliefs no matter their foundation.

Our feelings are hurt when our beliefs are questioned...or more often we feel we are being attacked.

Immediately we are in the defensive posture, our minds are closed, our conversations become subjective, and the emotions start flowing.

Once in this area, there will be little rationale, little logic, little facts, a great deal of stubbornness, closed-mindedness which keeps us from learning, and it's all downhill from there...

The dumbing of America...and no unity in sight...

jdanton · 11-10-2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldManOnFire

We develop our opinions and positions based on experiences, factual information, Fox news, or the Ouija board.

They become our personal beliefs no matter their foundation.

Our feelings are hurt when our beliefs are questioned...or more often we feel we are being attacked.

Immediately we are in the defensive posture, our minds are closed, our conversations become subjective, and the emotions start flowing.

Once in this area, there will be little rationale, little logic, little facts, a great deal of stubbornness, closed-mindedness which keeps us from learning, and it's all downhill from there...

The dumbing of America...and no unity in sight...

True. So many are more interested in being right than what is right.

It drives me nuts when I see issues discussed without being properly defined.

Back in '93, Rush Limbaugh had show after show on Hillary's health care proposals. I remember telling my friend, a staunch listener, that he was not being honest. I used the example that she put an "orange" on the table. He claimed she put an "apple" on the table, then spend 3 hrs a day telling us why an apple wouldn't help us. Most of his arguments about the apple not helping us were correct, but she hadn't proposed the apple, so his entire premise was based upon a falsehood.

this made all of his listenes misinformed.

OldManOnFire · 11-12-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanton

True. So many are more interested in being right than what is right.

It drives me nuts when I see issues discussed without being properly defined.

Back in '93, Rush Limbaugh had show after show on Hillary's health care proposals. I remember telling my friend, a staunch listener, that he was not being honest. I used the example that she put an "orange" on the table. He claimed she put an "apple" on the table, then spend 3 hrs a day telling us why an apple wouldn't help us. Most of his arguments about the apple not helping us were correct, but she hadn't proposed the apple, so his entire premise was based upon a falsehood.

this made all of his listenes misinformed.

...sporting events, and we pick our team, then we develop unconditional loyalty to that team, and we'll argue with anyone about how great our team is NO MATTER THE REALITY OF THE TEAMS PERFORMANCE OR ISSUES.

It becomes paramount to be right or best!

Nothing else matters at this point...not the facts, not the truth...nothing...

The dumbing of America!!

jdanton · 11-12-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldManOnFire

...sporting events, and we pick our team, then we develop unconditional loyalty to that team, and we'll argue with anyone about how great our team is NO MATTER THE REALITY OF THE TEAMS PERFORMANCE OR ISSUES.

It becomes paramount to be right or best!

Nothing else matters at this point...not the facts, not the truth...nothing...

The dumbing of America!!

We have all probably witnessed two guys arguing about who's going to win the game on Sunday. Ridiculous, but it happens. Frequently.

Namath has a lot of people who believe he was the best quarterback ever to pick up a football. Don't try to tell them he only had two good years.

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