Obama wants to expand faith-based programs - Page 6

Comicsartist · 07-03-2008, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzo

Now remember...

I live deep in the Bible Belt of Ga. Just coming out of the broom closet here is something I've put off for two years, lol! I actually had one older AA gentleman tell me he saw the devil walking behind me in my footsteps after I politely refused an invite to his church.

I could start a pagan charity, but I'll warrant I'd be the sole member.

Are you Pagan or Wiccan?

gonzo · 07-03-2008, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comicsartist

Are you Pagan or Wiccan?

Neither really. I hate labels. Pagan would be a more accurate answer, as I lean too left and am not nice enough to be a real wiccan. I have too much of my father's influence instilled in me regarding the old ones, so this is a question to which I don't feel I can give an honest answer.

Comicsartist · 07-03-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzo

Neither really. I hate labels. Pagan would be a more accurate answer, as I lean too left and am not nice enough to be a real wiccan. I have too much of my father's influence instilled in me regarding the old ones, so this is a question to which I don't feel I can give an honest answer.

No worries and blessed be.

Old school Wicca was more along the lines of Earth Goddess worship, wasn't it? Or is that new school?

Been a while since I've read up on it.

Back then (old school) weren't Wiccans like natural healers and whatnot?

Ptech · 07-04-2008, 07:18 AM

CA

Obama might not be lifting one brand of religion over another, but that ultimately remains to be seen in practice.

You have not commented on just WHY the federal govt NEEDS to be involved in religious activity AT ALL?

cheapseats · 07-04-2008, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Is Santa for Adults

On Comics behalf, I have to admit his church sounds pretty damn close to my idea of a good church, so Ca, keep up the good work.

No dice.

I happened upon a Unitarian Church in Charleston, apparently the first in the nation, that has a mission statement that was a delight to discover.

STILL doesn't mean they should receive money from the government READ THAT, TAXPAYER.

cheapseats · 07-04-2008, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comicsartist

Unfortunately, until the Bible Belt realizes that you don't need to have faith in a higher power to be a good person, faith will always be in the White House. Be it true faith, or simply spoken word, though, is another thing altogether.

Faith is not in a house of government, white or otherwise.

Faith is in a person, or not.

Infusing personal faith into public policy runs contrary to the expressed purpose our founding documents. THAT WOULD BE BECAUSE IT RUNS CONTRARY TO THE WHOLE REASON THAT THOSE PILGRIMS CAME OVER HERE AND USURPED A LAND MASS, WHICH NECESSITATED FOUNDING DOCUMENTS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

cheapseats · 07-04-2008, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comicsartist

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Giving money to a faith-based organization ABSOLUTELY plays into establishment of religion. Believe you me, a church with more 'here, let me help you' money has more street cred.

Quote:

Separation of church and state deals with no religious test, which according to Obama's version of faith based initiatives, there is no religious test. No hiring or firing based on religious beliefs.

Are you suggesting that that's it...the long and short, the parts and sum of Separation of Church and State means only equal hiring opportunities?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comicsartist

...but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

i.e. NO RELIGIOUS TEST TO HOLD OFFICE IN OR BE EMPLOYED BY GOVERNMENT.

cheapseats · 07-04-2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzo

Oooo, I should start a pagan charity should he be elected. It could get interesting.

A divinity degree can be accomplished online.

I'm thinking Church of Menopausal Women.

cheapseats · 07-04-2008, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comicsartist

Dubya's Faith Based Initiatives plan skirted with allowing hiring/firing based on religious affiliation. HE was guilty of muddying the line between church and state. Obama's plan says no one will be hired or fired based on religion. What Obama is saying is if you run a Christian organization/charity, you are not allowed to not hire someone because they are Muslim or secular in their beliefs/lack there-of.

No religious test.

The irony is that Obama would be as wrong to oblige a faith-based outfit to hire from outside their faith as Bush would have been to insist on government hiring from within a faith.

That's gettin' over into the Boy Scouts must accept girls arena. Being free to assemble and worship unmistakably implies freedom to align and associate with like-minded people.

cheapseats · 07-04-2008, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ptech

Has the church no function in our society? Why must the govt do the church's business?

More like, why would taxpayers PERMIT government to fund church business. Churches are in the business of helping people, yes?

If a church or religion has a function in people's lives, it has a function in society. The has ZERO bearing on receipt of taxpayer funds, however.

A car serves an important person in the lives of everyone who works. Many people work in fields that are more directly related to the public good than others, yes? Emergency services people, hospital personnel, teachers, to name just a few. Ought the taxpayers to underwrite these people's purchase of cars/gas/insurance, in order to facilitate their reliable arrival for their pro-society tasks?

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