kblair7

A myth, or mythos, can appear as a story which can, explain the origin of the cosmos or depict an event, sometimes they contain ‘supernatural’ creatures or impossible feats of heroes from time passed.



http://www.religion-online.org/showa....asp?title=171

mentor

This is at the core of our love of stories. Now we look to the big screen for these heroic tales. Funny we can separate truth from fiction in movies for the most part, but we won't question a 2000 year old myth.

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"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy."

David Brooks

kblair7

Which was my point in starting this thread. That although people claim to no longer "believe" or "need" religion, I postulate that not only do we have an innate need for religious myth but it is inseparable from the fabric of cultural evolution.

Exactly right. There is a thin line between truth and fiction. People have to believe in something, so we can derive purpose out of our existence. Religion is one way that is provided that for us. Atheists claim they have no need for such things but I assure you they do, they derive their purpose, there need for belief from other places.

Reason is a belief, and the pursuit of reason can become a type of religion in itself. It has its own mythic structure and its own heroes, its own creation stories, and requires faith in somethings that are near unprovable--in the negative. For example:

There is no God.

It cannot be proven that their is no God, nor can they prove the universe begun in a "big bang," or that we sprung from the primordial ooze.

All systems of believe require faith on some level or another, even perpetual skepticism.

mentor

What you say is true, but it will be interpreted by some as saying that reason as a belief system has no advantage over other belief systems. This is not the case. Human belief falls on a continuum with fiction on one end and fact on the other. Rationalism falls closer to fact than any other belief system. It is simply a better approximation of reality.

We all have to have beliefs, even atheists as you pointed out. There are differences in the quality of belief systems and it is based on how we support and justify them.

W.C Fields said "Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll have another drink!"

__________________
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy."

David Brooks

kblair7

I agree. What I am arguing against is not the rationalist school or religion, its the thought process, the logic, that some use to justify the superiority of their belief structure over another's. I don't care what it is, you could worship giant carrots. It is also the lack of respect that I sense, which really irritates me. Since it is simultaneously a lack of respect for our history and cultural development, as humble as those origins maybe.

I like the quote btw... when one believes himself to know absolute truth over his fellow man, he becomes a tyrant, and that nature of true evil in this world.

nroberts

I actually don't know any atheist that claims they don't need purpose or meaning in their lives. I don't know of any atheist that doesn't have value for beauty and, for lack of a better word, the human spirit. So right off the bat you're apparently completely misunderstanding those you wish to convince.

I always like to quote Dennett at this point and I wish I could word for word, because it's brilliantly worded, but I'll have to paraphrase for you. It is true that there is a type of faith in belief in science. For one thing, no one person can know it all so we have to have faith in those around us to know the things we can't invest in knowing. For another thing, scientific belief is a belief system that allows the rubber to hit the road so to speak. You can strap yourself to a large bomb and blast yourself into orbit...betting your life on your belief. You can't do that with credulous faith - the faith of religion.

There's also no Santa Claus.
There's no invisible pink unicorn.
There's no flying spaghetti monster.
There's no teapot orbiting the sun.

Do you question any of those beliefs?

Contrary to popular misconception though, this isn't faith. If we assumed every assertion was valid until it was proven otherwise there would be no sense to be had about the world. You simply cannot believe anything if you believe everything.

No, but the answers that leave magic and superstition out of the picture are so much more enlightening and fulfilling. "A magic man done it," just leaves you wanting for more...and there's no "more" to be had with that answer.

It is true that perpetual skepticism requires a lot of faith. It takes a lot of faith to disbelieve something in the face of piles and piles of evidence. I definitely agree with you on that one.

Duvidoo

Find a copy of the Necronomicon and call down some of these babies....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu_Mythos

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Both phrases are meaningless, if the person(s) who are doing the saying of the phrases are worthless pieces of shit that have nothing better to do in their miserable little empty lives than go on a political board and call other posters Lying Fucksticks or Lying Pieces of Shit....
— Anon.

Duvidoo

Methinks you're missing the point of the FSM.
He's just as real as a lot of those other things
people believe in.

__________________
Both phrases are meaningless, if the person(s) who are doing the saying of the phrases are worthless pieces of shit that have nothing better to do in their miserable little empty lives than go on a political board and call other posters Lying Fucksticks or Lying Pieces of Shit....
— Anon.

nroberts

Yeah...I'm missing the point a lot. Thank you for correcting me.

Duvidoo

Richard Dawkins suggests that there must be a Flying Spaghetti Monster ... since he has a gospel dedicated to him he must be real.

Amazon.com: The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti...

__________________
Both phrases are meaningless, if the person(s) who are doing the saying of the phrases are worthless pieces of shit that have nothing better to do in their miserable little empty lives than go on a political board and call other posters Lying Fucksticks or Lying Pieces of Shit....
— Anon.