Sean

Well I have already given you the best answer possible (see the first two sentences in my first post of this thread) as to why it matters so unless you want to progress further in this discussion I'll just go away from this thread.

I have to go to work anyway...

Have a great day everyone!

Lolli

It doesn't matter.

We've told ourselves it matters and that's why we're in the situation we are today.

Religion is a man made and so is the concept of God.

Heretic

That's all we can do for now....

__________________
"Enough!!" -so rang Barack Obama's voice off the walls of Mile High Stadium

Environment Man

It matters because it is the truth. It is reality. It is real. It is logic to live by. It is science to die by. It is hope for the future in a paradigm that makes complete sense of the universe and existence. It explains why we are here, why we die and our purpose in the future.

Brainpolice

You didn't address the paradox. Science has of yet to have gotten around this paradox of creation. Even Multiverse theory still runs into the paradox of creation.

__________________
http://mises.com/blogs/brainpolice/

Environment Man

Logic dictates that there has to be one entity that always has been, always will be and is all powerful. That ends the chicken and egg, allows for the sentience and power to design and implement the Big Bang and rule in Heaven.

nroberts

I'll tell you why it matters to me.

First, trying to figure out why we are here I think has a lot to do with how we got here. Furthermore, trying to figure out where we are going likewise has a lot to do with how we got here.

Also, I think it has a lot to do with how best to live. How we got here, how we were "made", and how we were programmed has a lot to do with what will make us happy. Trying to get the most out of life has a lot to do with how that life came to be.

Furthermore, the question of God strikes me as particularly interesting because I frankly don't want there to be one. Every god I've ever met, with one possible exception, has been a total asshole. The God of the Christians is a personality that I don't particularly like. But at any rate, if there is one it's worth understanding...if for no other reasons than to pick sides.

But the God proposal actually makes sense of nothing. To much degree you have a strong point with, "Why does it matter," since to answer any of the really great questions you have to remove God from his thrown and cast him as an equal...or just plain lose the idea all together. Questions of morality, first causes, the nature of thought...etc...etc... God adds nothing to the answer, in fact he more often than not blocks our way to the truth.

It is for this later reason that I've concluded that either God does not exist, or he doesn't interfere. Well, or he's malevolent or ignorant and confused.

At an even more basic level, it is clear that God, should he exist, is an entity...a being....one among many. What is it about this being that dictates the title "God"? Is it power? Do we worship a being because it can squash us? Is it wisdom? Is it benevolence? Is it simple knowledge? Is it because it took the title? Is it a combination of some or all of these things? If a seemingly supernatural entity showed itself to you and said, "I am God..." what would your first question be? How would you decide if it was telling the truth or would you bother to find out?

nroberts

No it doesn't.

First off, logic "dictates" nothing. I realize I might be blaspheming your hero, Spock, but the simple truth of the matter is that logic is a tool for analysis...it doesn't "dictate".

Furthermore, "always will be," is not necessary. The elements that exist today were not in existence when the big bang occurred and the "elements" that immediately followed the big bang, the vast majority anyway, do not exist anymore. They were destroyed in the process of forming matter. So we know right off that what exists today could have been formed by something temporary - because it was.

"All powerful" is also unnecessary. The only necessary feature of whatever caused the big bang is that it has the potential to create a HUGE amount of energy. Either actually causing new energy to come into existence (though thermodynamics work a certain way in this universe I'm not going to hold all universes to our theories) or converted an energy that already existed.

There's actually a finite amount of energy in this universe, in the form of matter, motion, and various other forms. It is less now than it was when the big bang occurred. Nothing further than the amount of energy in the big bang is necessary, and that is not an infinite amount.

So your argument fails on multiple levels. First by claiming that logic "dictates" anything. Logic is a tool and logic can be wrong--especially when based on false premises--and can be used incorrectly. Second by claiming that whatever created the universe had to have existed forever - this is not so; another quite reasonable hypothesis is that there's been an infinite cascade of events involving the creation and destruction of many different forms that eventually caused the big bang; yet another is that there's no time outside the universe and thus no infinity, no before, and no outside for this "quandary" to be concerned with. Third, by claiming that such whatever has to be all powerful when this is clearly not required; a very basic and singular power is required...simply a vast supply of energy.

Nothing intelligent, all powerful, or eternal is required or "dictated" by logic. There are a vast supply of reasonable ideas that could have caused the big bang that do not involve an intelligent creator. The likelihood of any of them being testable is nil, but you never know...some day someone might prove one of them correct.

gonzo

Galaxies within galaxies going on and on in a timeless expanse. Why is it so hard to let go of the creation faction? Energy just *is*. (And probably always has been...and that loops around as well.)

Ommmmmmmmmm.....

(Edited to remove that smiley. It looked like I was saying Loser...I wasn't.)

Kanadesaga

It is a question of faith. Period. If you believe it is real, if not it isn't. Either way, if you need the fear of some imaginary man in the sky to behave yourself, then you're as pathetic as the hucksters who sell religion on TV.