Why does the existance of a god matter? - Page 50

Jonesy · 01-02-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Environment Man

Order requires force. And God is the ultimate dictator. He made us and knows how we work best, individually and collectively. Yet we seek our own way as heathens hell bent on materialism and orgasm and drunkeness from power.

Order only requires force if the participating creatures refuse to consent. To you, humans are not the same as animals. But they are... same pains, pleasures, fears, and all the rest of the things guiding the creatures of this universe. When the animals do 'evil', no one condemns them. Why condemn humans, when most are as naive as animals? The only ones who can truly be condemned would be those who know better. Even then, there are other factors. Much in life is chemistry. Put 500 ingredients together; a war breaks out. Remove any one ingredient; an innocuous fluid.

Environment Man · 01-02-2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonesy

Order only requires force if the participating creatures refuse to consent. To you, humans are not the same as animals. But they are... same pains, pleasures, fears, and all the rest of the things guiding the creatures of this universe. When the animals do 'evil', no one condemns them. Why condemn humans, when most are as naive as animals? The only ones who can truly be condemned would be those who know better. Even then, there are other factors. Much in life is chemistry. Put 500 ingredients together; a war breaks out. Remove any one ingredient; an innocuous fluid.

Bold mine. Animals cannot "do evil" for they are not bound by morals. Morals are derived from God. Animals cannot murder. Nor steal. Nor cheat on a spouse. Nor lie. They are the lower forms and humans the godly form. Big distinction.

Yet some want animals to have the rights of humans. Next will be proposals for goat marriage.

Jonesy · 01-02-2008, 05:48 PM

Because you fear chaos (really, what you fear is personal pain and/or death), you support slavery.

For the purpose of controlling that which you fear, you support the creation and perpetuation of religions and their false information and their fake Gods. Like training a dog, so the dog does not bite or kill anyone, people have trained people.

Which group is worse? The group of cowards, grossly misinterpreting the guidance their fear, pleasure and pain provide; or the group of innocents, whose lives are essentially stolen just so the lives of these cowards can be more pleasurable?

Environment Man · 01-02-2008, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonesy

Because you fear chaos (really, what you fear is personal pain and/or death), you support slavery.

For the purpose of controlling that which you fear, you support the creation and perpetuation of religions and their false information and their fake Gods. Like training a dog, so the dog does not bite or kill anyone, people have trained people.

Which group is worse? The group of cowards, grossly misinterpreting the guidance their fear, pleasure and pain provide; or the group of innocents, whose lives are essentially stolen just so the lives of these cowards can be more pleasurable?

I do not fear chaos for my God has told me to fear no chaos. He is sovereign and has told me he will not give me more than I can stand in becoming dead.

I willingly enslave myself to God. And will work for free in exchange for eternal life.

Innocents can be cowards and cowards can be innocent. You seem to want to confuse yourself when there are clear answers.

Jonesy · 01-02-2008, 05:59 PM

I'd say religious people are more evil than the people they claim are evil. You treat humans like dogs. Why? How can you be assured chaos would erupt without this dog/god-training? There must be a righteous way.

nroberts · 01-02-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonesy

How can you be assured chaos would erupt without this dog/god-training?

http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.html

Quote:

If the data showed that the U.S. enjoyed higher rates of societal health than the more secular, pro-evolution democracies, then the opinion that popular belief in a creator is strongly beneficial to national cultures would be supported. Although they are by no means utopias, the populations of secular democracies are clearly able to govern themselves and maintain societal cohesion. Indeed, the data examined in this study demonstrates that only the more secular, pro-evolution democracies have, for the first time in history, come closest to achieving practical “cultures of life” that feature low rates of lethal crime, juvenile-adult mortality, sex related dysfunction, and even abortion. The least theistic secular developed democracies such as Japan, France, and Scandinavia have been most successful in these regards. The non-religious, pro-evolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator. The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted. Contradicting these conclusions requires demonstrating a positive link between theism and societal conditions in the first world with a similarly large body of data - a doubtful possibility in view of the observable trends.

Environment Man · 01-02-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonesy

I'd say religious people are more evil than the people they claim are evil. You treat humans like dogs. Why? How can you be assured chaos would erupt without this dog/god-training? There must be a righteous way.

We are fallen and not much better than dogs. Jesus saved us or we would be lower than dogs.

Man's inhumanity to man does not stop at the Christian church door nor the homes of Christians. They are just people. Their advantage is that they BELIEVE. Even if only the amount of a mustard seed.

There is dog/dog training and still chaos. It is because God is allowing us to see if we can manage ourselves without the supreme trainer. He will win this debate.

Jonesy · 01-02-2008, 06:06 PM

Fear, pain and pleasure all tempt you; albeit in different directions. The only way to truly walk the path of righteousness is to resist temptation. You must know when to reject advice from your body.

Environment Man · 01-02-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonesy

Fear, pain and pleasure all tempt you; albeit in different directions. The only way to truly walk the path of righteousness is to resist temptation. You must know when to reject advice from your body.

I am fallen and weak and know it yet I seek to please God by following his every word. Though I fall short I pray for forgiveness and proceed to try again. Yet I believe. And that is the point. The nonbeliever is an aggressive opposer like the Father of Death.

The body is weak. The flesh easily tempted. But the knowledge and acceptance of God is pure.

Jonesy · 01-02-2008, 06:24 PM

The real guidance of 'God' comes in the form of bodily systems. When you feel pain, you are being touched by 'God'. It is crucial to correctly interpret the message.

Religions are created by man, to exploit these 'Godly' bodily systems, so these mans can control other mans.

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