What would you say - Page 9

slowhand · 01-01-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nroberts

You sure his reason was different?

Uhhh..Not exactly..

Environment Man · 01-01-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeisureChrist

You've got it backwards, just like most everything else in your life. If the idea is for Eman to to speak from HIS perspective, then HE should be saying, "I" rather than you saying "HIM." Instead, by means of you speaking of "HIM," we get your perspective of Eman, rather than Eman's perspective of Eman. Either way, the humble do no generally seek yo come off as smug.

It appears backwards to you because you are observing it from the outside and I am observing it from the inside. Thus, Eman, in speaking from Eman's perspective does not use "I" because then my narrative might be confused with Eman's perspective. As such, by using 3rd person I can give Eman's perspective via my narrative without corrupting Eman's perspective. Thus, being humble is maintained, for Eman's perspective is not always my humble perspective.

LeisureChrist · 01-01-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Environment Man

It appears backwards to you because you are observing it from the outside and I am observing it from the inside. Thus, Eman, in speaking from Eman's perspective does not use "I" because then my narrative might be confused with Eman's perspective. As such, by using 3rd person I can give Eman's perspective via my narrative without corrupting Eman's perspective. Thus, being humble is maintained, for Eman's perspective is not always my humble perspective.

Perhaps you should go back to school... By using third person, it becomes you talking about Eman rather than Eman talking. Thus it is not Eman's perspective, but Norris's perspective.

Environment Man · 01-01-2008, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeisureChrist

Perhaps you should go back to school... By using third person, it becomes you talking about Eman rather than Eman talking. Thus it is not Eman's perspective, but Norris's perspective.

But I am Eman so it is not Norris talking about Eman it is Eman talking about Eman, thus the Third person. Norris does not talk about Eman ever or under any circumstances. In fact, Eman does not exist for Norris. If you ever meet Norris and ask about Eman he will answer: "Who?"

Gaia · 01-01-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeisureChrist

Getting back to the original topic of this post, I would agree that it at least seems humans have some quality (or at least some quantity of some quality) that makes us different from other animals. I say "seems" because any conjecture about the inner life of minds different than our own is just that... Conjecture. It surely does appear that other animals are less reflective than humans, and it also seems that some animals are less reflective than others. For example, it is difficult to even imagine what goes on in what passes for the brain of a spider, while an astute individual can make a reasonable estimation of the behavior of a domesticated canine. Indeed, one can even engage in limited psychological manipulation of the canine, while being limited to avoiding, caging, or killing the spider.

We generally use our human template, when we examine things around us. We study animals to understand their behavoir, but we look at what we study through human eyes and with human minds. We try to humanize everything. Some people treat their dogs as if they are human, dress them in little outfits and such, and expect them to behave as if they were human. And then they get upset when the animal exhibits peculiar behavior. Duh! It's a DOG!

In order to understand anything around us, we should first start by trying to understand ourselves and others of our own kind? Is that even possible?

Gaia · 01-01-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Environment Man

Yet as a sentient being unlike the lower animals, it is the anticipation of my death that is disturbing. Thus since I cannot miss me in the grave for there is no activity there, I miss me NOW knowing that I WILL die and be nonexistent. No more PoliticalGroove.com. No more anything. A thousand years might pass before the resurrection (there there is much dispute about the timing of this event) and Eman will not know it. I love life. Sunrise and sunset. Friendships. Relatives. As I said, I miss me already.

You love life? Then LIVE it! Don't waste so much time, worrying about what may or may not happen when you die. Cross that bridge when you get to it, in the meantime...be alive!

Environment Man · 01-01-2008, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaia

You love life? Then LIVE it! Don't waste so much time, worrying about what may or may not happen when you die. Cross that bridge when you get to it, in the meantime...be alive!

Eman does love and lives life to the fullest. I was simply discussing the prospect of death not worrying about it or delaying life's pleasures.

mentor · 01-01-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Environment Man

If they were designed to procreate they would have their own robor parents. We would be the ones who gave the original robot pair life. We would be their gods except for the evolutionist robots who would assign their robotness to random chance and they would worship science.

They would probably procreate asexually. For them, reproduction would be like tinkering in the shop. Of course, they might not be very "fruitful" with that reproductive model. Then again, we do pretty well producing cars.

Environment Man · 01-01-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mentor

They would probably procreate asexually. For them, reproduction would be like tinkering in the shop. Of course, they might not be very "fruitful" with that reproductive model. Then again, we do pretty well producing cars.

Well we would probably copy God's method and make it possible for them to procreate, but I agree it would probably be asexual, which is more efficient, yet not as creative as the human DNA exchange.

This is a great metaphor for creationism though. They would know that they did not just happen from a clumping of metals (with lightning and time added).

nroberts · 01-01-2008, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mentor

They would probably procreate asexually. For them, reproduction would be like tinkering in the shop. Of course, they might not be very "fruitful" with that reproductive model. Then again, we do pretty well producing cars.

Robots would probably be purely meme complexes inside of mechanical bodies. In that regard they would reproduce in much the same way as we do...parents and family install their memes into the brain of an infant until it boots up a new soul.

In Eon, Greg Bear puts forth the idea of a futuristic human society in which people take human bodies for a lifetime and then store their consciousness into a massive computer system's memory storage. They live there for a few hundred years until it's their turn to have a body again. They no longer produce by having sex, in fact new bodies don't even have the organs for it, but by mixing their consciousnesses together and generating a new child intelligence in computer memory. When it's been around for a while and earned passage, it's given a body.

Part of what humans are is preprogrammed biological imperatives. Our brains have much firmware hardwired into them. A large part of what we are isn't though, it's learned from surroundings and seems to be built out of words and ideas. Minds that are English are very different from minds that are Chinese.

Part of what humans are programmed with, as with any biological entity, is an urge to procreate. Robots would have much more control over this and don't even need to have the urge at all. But if they did procreate, I doubt it would have much to do with anatomy but be more about "souls". One major benefit of being an AI would be to be able to inhabit any body with the right wiring or OS. Biological brains are so unique that this is probably never going to be possible for human minds.

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