Originally Posted by AlineaHeart

Well I can't sleep yet...but I may before you reply. However when I get home in the wee hours of tomorrow, I wish to see links. From google I have gathered Bartholomew is another entity like Seth and...Odin - I've heard of Odin's Cross (and by cross, I mean a wooden one, not the history or anything) but if there is more, I'd like to know.

What was the retreat like? What did you do? Did anyone happen to ask Bartholomew why some experience death as "nothingness" and others experience light? I'm guessing it is relative to the person's belief (I haven't finished my one book yet :-P).

Originally Posted by Gaia

Dealing with Fundamentalists:

http://www.paganlibrary.com/fundies/index.php

Originally Posted by GurnBlanston

This one's the best:

Lastly, When I'm Feeling Really Nasty:
"You know, I want to thank you. It's folk like you that have made my religion grow and grow. Who knows, without enemies our faith might've died out, again, I thank you!!"

Link

Originally Posted by AlineaHeart

Sigh. I can't stay silent. Hopefully 'Tic won't give too many lashes for possibly "turning" this thread but I thought I would interject some things I'm learning presently. Well, actually, I'm validating my own hunches. I picked up a book (or did the book pick me? ) and knew it was for me when I read "Consciousness creates form. It is not the other way around. All personalities are not physical. It is only because you are so busily concerned with daily matters that you do not realize that there is a portion of you who knows that its own powers are far superior to those shown by the ordinary self."

Later, I came across something else that intrigued me. I had a dream a few years ago where I saw the universe as music. I assumed it was "our" universe with simply another view. Then I read this: "To some extent I also travel through such environments. Consciousness must show itself, however. It cannot unbe. It is not physical, it must therefore show its activation in other ways. In some systems for example, it forms highly integrated mathematical and musical patterns that are themselves stimuli for other universal systems. I am not very well acquainted with these, however, and cannot speak of them with any great familiarity."

The above quotes are from Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul. More interesting stuff from this website:

On death:

“You will find yourself in another form, an image that will appear physical to you to a large degree, as long as you do not try to manipulate within the physical system with it.”

“For those of you who are lazy I can offer no hope: Death will not bring you an eternal resting place. You may rest, if this is your wish, for a while. Not only must you use your abilities after death, however, but you must face up to yourself for those that you did not use during your previous existence.”

“There are teachers to explain the conditions and circumstances.”

“The afterdeath environments... are generally far more intense and joyful than the reality you now know.”

“All necessary explanations are given to those who are disoriented. Those who do not realize that they are dead are... told of their true condition, and all efforts are made to refresh the energies and spirits.”

“There are always guides to help you understand your situation...”

On war & violence:

“But when all the young men refuse to kill for the sake of peace, and when all the women forbid their men to kill for the sake of peace, and when you realize that no peace will come through killing, and that the end does not justify the means, and when you grow full and light with thoughts of peace, there will be an end to war. But as long as any men go to war for the sake of peace, there will be war. And, as long as any woman teaches her sons to go to war because of love of the peace, there will be war.

You make your world. When you populate your world with ideas of peace, then peace will grow. When you think thoughts of aggression, you attract aggression and you draw it out from others in daily contact, and on the part of nations.

...Now you cannot understand this now, and yet I tell you that your own preoccupation with arms, as a country, is received by others, and your own thoughts are materialized and you create wars in your minds that then must be faced with your flesh and your blood.

The reality that you have is a replica of your thoughts. If you do not like the world, you must change your thoughts and no exterior manipulation will change the face of your experience one iota, if you do not change your dreams and your thoughts.

...Unfortunately, you equate aggression with strength, so you are afraid to elect a peaceful man. And all the other countries feel the same, so they are afraid to put into power, by whatever means, peaceful men. And so your world situation is the result of your individual beliefs, en masse.

...Now, when individually you believe in peace, and when you no longer believe that good is weak and evil is powerful, then, on countrywide bases, you will put people into power who believe in the active nature of peace. And, again, there is no other answer.”

http://www.sethlearningcenter.org/

Originally Posted by AlineaHeart

Oooh...didn't mean to sound so pessimistic there. Here's good news:

Why we're here:

“… you must be taught and trained to create responsibly. Yours is a training system for emerging consciousness.”

“You are learning to be cocreators. You are learning to be gods as you now understand the term. You are learning responsibility- the responsibility of any individualized consciousness. You are learning to handle the energy that is yourself, for creative purposes.”

“The child must mature, and your system is a maturing ground, a very primary one…. A beginning school…”

“The human race is a stage though which various forms of consciousness travel. Before you can be allowed into systems of reality that are more extensive and open, you must first learn to handle energy and see, through physical materialization, the concrete result of thought and emotion.”

“In more advanced systems, thoughts, and emotions are automatically and immediately translated into action, into whatever approximation of matter there exists. Therefore, the lessons must be taught and learned well. The responsibility for creation must be clearly understood.”


Thought I'd highlight the good stuff.

Originally Posted by Gaia

Thank's for clearing this up for me.

The Romans were very clever about alot of things, they learned very well from the Etruscans.

Originally Posted by itsmeeeeeee

yes, bartholomew is a channel... like seth.

the bartholomew retreat was interesting - but a little disappointing because mary margaret was no longer channeling. bartholomew had warned for a couple of years that he was going away... saying that he said everything he wanted to say, had given all the answers people on this plane required, and that he can't "do this for you!" he was getting rather irritated with people asking the same questions over and over, and admittedly, not long on patience. i liked him because he was kind of grumpy, for a channel, and didn't suffer fools gladly! he would get a little short with people when they were being obtuse. and in a lot of ways, he really pushed ya to get in there and make your own connection - which, in the end, really worked for me. he reminded me of a zen monk - who were famous for smacking their students with a cane when they got an answer wrong. he kept maintaining that if people would go "inside" and open up, they wouldn't need him.

Originally Posted by itsmeeeeeee

i felt a little sorry for mary margaret at the retreat i went to, because he kind of left her holding the bag. but i respected her for just saying he was gone, and not pretending to channel something that wasn't there anymore.
the books she channeled are just as pertainent and poignant today as they ever were. and definitely worth checking out.

Originally Posted by itsmeeeeeee

as far as gentle channels go, tho, and subjects regarding death, etc, i really loved emmanuel.

i personally have to agree with bartholomew.
you couldn't understand other levels of existence (beyond our physical bodies) even if he could somehow describe them. but you can reach them RIGHT NOW, if you go inside yourself.

Originally Posted by itsmeeeeeee

i've tried in vain to describe it myself.
but once you go there, you understand it, and it's totally non-verbal.
and once you go there, you also realize that you are "there" all the time - even while you're still in this body.

Originally Posted by itsmeeeeeee

emmanuel describes the body like a tight pair of shoes.
and death feels like taking them off.

Originally Posted by The_Heretic

In the theme of the thread this actually fits. The direct though/desire translation into action is a good way to read otherwise chaotic systems such as weather. But the source of the thought doesn't need form so we don't see it manifesting any. I think many pagan, animatistic and other nature-based traditions understood this- even if only at a cursory level, and accepted the idea of all things around them having spirit. Their stories serve to reflect this concept using imagery they grasp best.

Originally Posted by AlineaHeart

What is so wrong with believing in the divinity of us (humans)?[/i]

Originally Posted by BleedingPinky

Sorry, I haven´t had enough patience for reading all the posts here, but this lil sentence grabbed my attention. Answering the question, nothing. In fact it´s the only thing I believe in. Life is nowhere else but here, like my dog constantly tells me everyday.

Originally Posted by AlineaHeart

Give it up for the doggie instincts! Who nose best?

Originally Posted by AlineaHeart

Well, that's kinda where I was going with it. I didn't want to just pipe up with "spirits are considered feminine but I can't remember where I read it!" (an impression from earlier in the thread) So, I did a big post without actually stating the question:

What is so wrong with believing in the divinity of us (humans)?