Heretic

No, I mean the etruscan gods.

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"In space no one can hear you scream. in D.C. it won't matter..." -Clinton Resurrection: The Alien Queen lives!

Gaia

Oh!


In the link Comicsartist posted, it hinted at a connection between the Etruscan and Greek Philosophy and Gods.

Heretic

It would make sense. Many Greek ideas traveled alongside their practical technologies and food production methods. Plus, Greek writing was simpler and more structured, so the transmission of ideas came more easily.

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"In space no one can hear you scream. in D.C. it won't matter..." -Clinton Resurrection: The Alien Queen lives!

Gaia

An Observation by AthenaPrime

The majority of us who consider ourselves Pagans left Christianity to strike out and define a faith of our own. We left the Christian flock to form a wolf pack of sorts, and many of us coalesced into the pack known as Wicca. There are various pack branches, and some branches feel that other branches don't really belong to the pack, but small quibbles aside, the differences are academic.

And then there are those of us who have gone a little further -- the lone wolves who don't consider ourselves Wiccan due to deeper differences in philosophy. Some, like the Asatruar, have formed their own pack and hunt other territory. Others may minimize their differences to remain with the Wiccan pack, albeit on the fringes. And then there are the rest of us.

We are the lost ones. Maybe not exactly lost, but definitely not traveling with the pack. Wicca 101 books may have gotten us started in the forest, but we've grown to the point where the Wicca books help us less and less. Maybe we don't identify with the strongly Celtic influence so prevalent in many Wiccan traditions. Maybe we can't identify with Gerald Gardner any more than we can with Jerry Falwell. Or maybe our personal codes and the way we live our lives just doesn't fit in within accepted parameters of Wicca.

I was re-reading "To Light a Sacred Flame" by Silver Ravenwolf the other day and noticed that one of the reasons I have such mixed feelings on the book is because its usefulness to me is quite a bit less than some of her other stuff. Her tradition is Wiccan. I'm not Wiccan. This means that much of the information she gives from a Wiccan perspective is pretty much useless.

In some of the recent Cauldron message threads, there has also been some discussion on Magick. I've been guilty of the same thing that a lot of people have done -- lumped magick in with Wicca. Even though I should know better, I still mentally lumped magick in with Wicca until an acquaintance of mine shared her experience of overcoming a guilt complex for her love of those Catholic candles found in the Mexican food aisles of grocery stores all around the US.

My own knee-jerk, former Catholic self's reaction was, "they can't do that, they're Catholic and it won't work!"

Then I asked myself why not. An embarrassed sputter was all I could come up with. For shame! Magick isn't limited to Wicca, or even the larger umbrella of Paganism. I spent a good day and a half cleaning wolf-doo off my boots for that one. Big oops.

The point of this short essay is this -- don't be guilty of the same things our ancestors were guilty of. Just as turn-of-the-century archaeologists put a decidedly Christian slant on their studies of pre-Christian cultures, the Pagan community is in danger of putting a Wiccan slant on something that is larger than Wicca. Tread carefully in the forest, and mind the lone wolves that are hunting alongside the pack.

Gaia

The reason I posted that "Lone Wolves" Article, is because in a nutshell, it describes how I feel. I've been guilty for saying, just for the sake of convenience, or I don't feel like explaining myself and my beliefs, that I am Wiccan. And I'm always left feeling as if I told an untruth. I have been the way I am long before Silver Raven Wolf et.al. ever thought about writing their Books.

I know Wicca is now a legitimate Religion. But I still do not consider myself wiccan/pagan. In my mind it is a Label. And I don't like labels.

So, to any other Lone Wolves out there: Have a wonderful Day!

Heretic

Well, anyone knows how much a lone wolf I've been [check avatar ] so I appreciated it. I have to say that in fact magic is a major theme in catholicism in particular. What's a catholic priest doing when he/she performs an exorcism? That's a spell. The words are gestures are different, but the concept is close enough that they might as well let the other shoe drop.

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"In space no one can hear you scream. in D.C. it won't matter..." -Clinton Resurrection: The Alien Queen lives!

Gaia

They might as well, but they won't. Gotta keep up appearances.

Your Avatar is awesome! I love Wolves, always have.

Alot of Catholic Rituals are Pagan-themed. And so are the things they use in them: Censer, Chalice etc. All the Holidays are Pagan in origin, they changed the "meaning" a little, but you can still plainly see the Pagan roots. And the Exorcism Ritual is kinda scary. All the yelling and hysteria about being posessed by demons and whatnot, and trying to drive them out. I guess it's cheaper than going to see a shrink.

Back when the conversion was in full swing, the Monks and priests were mostly the only ones who could read and write. Pagans themselves never needed to write anything down, their rituals were a part of their daily lives, flowing with the cycles and the seasons. But it's hard to know, really, because there are not many written records of Pagan practices, exept what the Church/Priests/Monks and Nuns put to paper, and they naturally put their own spin to it.

But haven't people always just made things up, as they went along? And "tweaked" them over time, to suit their purposes? I wonder.

In the meantime, I'm perfectly content to be a Lone Wolf.

Gaia

The Witch hunt timeline

Prior to the 9th century CE: There was a widespread popular belief that evil Witches existed. They were seen as evil persons, primarily women, who devoted their lives to harming and killing others through black magic and evil sorcery. The Catholic church at the time officially taught that such Witches did not exist. It was a heresy to say that they were real. "For example, the 5th century Synod of St. Patrick ruled that 'A Christian who believes that there is a vampire in the world, that is to say, a witch, is to be anathematized; whoever lays that reputation upon a living being shall not be received into the Church until he revokes with his own voice the crime that he has committed.' A capitulary from Saxony (775-790 CE) blamed these stereotypes on pagan belief systems: 'If anyone, deceived by the Devil, believes after the manner of the Pagans that any man or woman is a witch and eats men, and if on this account he burns [the alleged witch]... he shall be punished by capital sentence."

Timeline continued:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_burn2.htm

Gaia

Hello to all who take a peek at "satan's staff meetings".

The persecution of "Witches" is always on my mind. Right now, in this day and age, the witch hunt is directed at the gay community. How long before they remember: "thou shalt not suffer a "witch" to live?" If you-know-who, is even a remote example of the christian mindset, then we should NOT let our guard down too much.

I know many pagan/wiccans, mostly on the net, in yahoo groups. I made many pagan friends over the years, from allover the globe. Some of them even came here to visit me, from england, belgium, and from here in the states. They are very sweet, beautiful people, all. And they are very open about their beliefs. Me? No! I do not, nor will I ever, fully trust most christians. They are too easily persuaded.

That is why I will remain a Solitary, and here in my RL, I keep my beliefs closely guarded. No way am I getting into a spiritual discussion with snakehandling holy rollers and babtists. I avoid them as if they were the plague. And in my mind, they are.

All things expressed in this post are my opinion only.

Alinea

Yet when we create things, our divinity is infused into that object, no? Just not sure if we can limit it to "alive."

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♥ Aaron Lewis ♥