Keeping the Faith (outta my goddamned government) A MUST READ

okpfloyd · 01-16-2008, 05:01 PM

The Oklahoman Wed, Jan 16th, 2008

"Constitution offers religious protection"

By A. James Rudin
Keeping the Faith

"Following a recent Sunday service at a Des Moines, Iowa, evangelical church, 38-year-old Ron Heins told a Washington Post reporter he would like the United States to rid itself of the separation of church and state.

"That is not in the Constitution anywhere,” he said. "Our country was founded on Christian principles. ... Give me the chance to share my faith.”

Even though Heins' ideas are shared by many Americans, his description of the Constitution is both wrong and dangerous.
Article Six of the Constitution declares that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

In a recent speech, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney cited that section of the Constitution in an effort to overcome the belief that his Mormon faith disqualifies him from the presidency.

Romney declared candidates should not be required to explain their religious beliefs: "To do so would enable the very religious test the founders prohibited in the Constitution.” Rightly put.

In 1791, the Bill of Rights was adopted, and the First Amendment says clearly that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ... . ”

These are not vague promises or ethereal concepts that can be blithely dismissed. Instead, these rights were specifically included in our nation's founding document to make certain there would never be a legally mandated established religion in the United States.

The seductive siren song to link church and state in America comes at a moment in history when our country is increasingly multi-religious, and when every religion in the world has members in the U.S. The Constitution guarantees no one is "prohibited” from the "free exercise” of any religion, including the 18 percent of us who do not identify as Christian — Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Baha'is, and others. Thanks to the Constitution, agnostics and atheists are also protected because they, too, represent the "free exercise” of religious (non) belief.

Now, some Americans mistakenly view church-state issues as a series of obscure court cases that involve prayers and Bible-reading in public schools, efforts to eliminate teaching of evolution, or divisive legal questions surrounding religious symbols on public property during the December holidays.

The proper balance between religion and state is a major issue that will never go away. Many Americans believe the question was permanently settled long ago by the adoption of Constitution, and the vigorous support of church-state separation by people such as Thomas Jefferson and James Madison.

Despite numerous attempts to undermine those bedrock constitutional guarantees, Jefferson's "wall of separation” requires constant maintenance. That wall has enabled both religion and state to prosper and grow strong in the U.S.

Americans who would eliminate the separation of church and state should remember that such a position is a recipe for disaster. When religion and state become entangled and intertwined, atrocities inevitably occur. Throughout history, religious minorities and dissidents have been the victims of persecution, even murder, at the hands of the majority.

Those who advocate a commingling of church and state need to recall that many early settlers came to these shores fleeing hostile governments and tyrannical religious institutions, seeking liberty and freedom of conscience. Think of Quakers, Pilgrims, French Huguenots, Roman Catholics, Jews, Baptists and a host of other religious groups that sought escape from regimes that harassed them because their beliefs were not part of the "establishment.”

Retired Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor said it best in rendering her last Supreme Court opinion: "Why ... trade a system that has served us so well for one that has served others so poorly?”
Rabbi James A. Rudin is the American Jewish Committee's senior inter-religious adviser. The "Keeping the Faith” column invites contributions by Oklahoma ministers and religious leaders. To be considered, e-mail columns of about 500 words to chinton@oklahoman.com or mail to Religion News, The Oklahoman, P.O. Box 25125, Oklahoma City, OK 73125"

.....................

This motherfucker is right on. Well written article. Bravo!

I'd love it if I could let go of my anger towards religion these days. If only these religious extremist would stop trying to tread on my beloved Constitution. I mean really, I act out at religion because, as this article points out so well, I feel it threatens this country and for that matter the whole fucking planet.

I know my place. Do these people of faith know there's? We're on a plant together, get over your lofty aspirational quest to "save" the world...while ignoring that you're destroying it!

I can't believe The Oklahoman printed this. Goddamned miracle...lol...oh!, And WORD allowed "goddamned" as correct on the spell check!...PROGRESS!

Have a whatever day!

ô¿ô

mentor · 01-17-2008, 10:33 AM

Regardless if one is a Christian Fundamentalist or a militant athiest, or like most of us, somewhere in between, we should all agree that separation of Church and State is on of the greatest ideas in our constitution and one that we must continue to uphold.

God Is Santa for Adults · 01-17-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mentor

Regardless if one is a Christian Fundamentalist or a militant athiest, or like most of us, somewhere in between, we should all agree that separation of Church and State is on of the greatest ideas in our constitution and one that we must continue to uphold.

yes, what do you think the xtians would think if islam was the official religion of US?

With numbers increasing, they could be majority in the near future. how would they feel as a minority group? Having to kneel and pray 5 times a day?

At least that would take away one of their logical excuses for their beliefs. 'We outnumber everyone else so we are correct' - BS

mentor · 01-17-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Is Santa for Adults

yes, what do you think the xtians would think if islam was the official religion of US?

With numbers increasing, they could be majority in the near future. how would they feel as a minority group? Having to kneel and pray 5 times a day?

At least that would take away one of their logical excuses for their beliefs. 'We outnumber everyone else so we are correct' - BS

Might makes right when it comes to religion all to often.

God Is Santa for Adults · 01-17-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mentor

Might makes right when it comes to religion all to often.

hence my stance that religion in not right!

Jonesy · 01-18-2008, 07:28 AM

The latest Christian take-over attempt. You have to wonder what the fuck is wrong with these Christians... why don't they leave everyone the holy fucking shitnuts christ alone? FUCK OFF CHRISTIANS

Jonesy · 01-18-2008, 07:32 AM

Christians, you are supposed to save us all. You're supposed to save all of us from your own stupid selves, don't you fucking get it? You can save us by leaving us the fuck alone and stop trying to push your retarded garbage.

okpfloyd · 01-18-2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonesy

Christians, you are supposed to save us all. You're supposed to save all of us from your own stupid selves, don't you fucking get it? You can save us by leaving us the fuck alone and stop trying to push your retarded garbage.

Key words are "stupid" and "retarded"...if a christian does not get this after reading this fine piece then these terms explain why...of course we have to add "brainwashed" to the equation to explain why some, otherwise very smart people, still believe they own this country...

gorillamom · 01-18-2008, 09:40 AM

Like I said in another thread, I saw a bumper sticker that said it all. "God please protect me from your followers"

Another one of my favorite one's is "My Godess Gave Birth to your God"

Another one that I think applies to these religious fanatics "Don't let your brain wander, It's too little to be left alone"

Jonesy · 01-18-2008, 02:00 PM

A person cannot be saved through coercion.

01-16-2008, 05:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
okpfloyd Senior Member Asteroids Champion! Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklafuckinghoma Posts: 337 My Mood: Thanks: 19 Thanked 29 Times in 16 Posts	Keeping the Faith (outta my goddamned government) A MUST READ The Oklahoman Wed, Jan 16th, 2008 "Constitution offers religious protection" By A. James Rudin Keeping the Faith "Following a recent Sunday service at a Des Moines, Iowa, evangelical church, 38-year-old Ron Heins told a Washington Post reporter he would like the United States to rid itself of the separation of church and state. "That is not in the Constitution anywhere,” he said. "Our country was founded on Christian principles. ... Give me the chance to share my faith.” Even though Heins' ideas are shared by many Americans, his description of the Constitution is both wrong and dangerous. Article Six of the Constitution declares that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” In a recent speech, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney cited that section of the Constitution in an effort to overcome the belief that his Mormon faith disqualifies him from the presidency. Romney declared candidates should not be required to explain their religious beliefs: "To do so would enable the very religious test the founders prohibited in the Constitution.” Rightly put. In 1791, the Bill of Rights was adopted, and the First Amendment says clearly that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ... . ” These are not vague promises or ethereal concepts that can be blithely dismissed. Instead, these rights were specifically included in our nation's founding document to make certain there would never be a legally mandated established religion in the United States. The seductive siren song to link church and state in America comes at a moment in history when our country is increasingly multi-religious, and when every religion in the world has members in the U.S. The Constitution guarantees no one is "prohibited” from the "free exercise” of any religion, including the 18 percent of us who do not identify as Christian — Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Baha'is, and others. Thanks to the Constitution, agnostics and atheists are also protected because they, too, represent the "free exercise” of religious (non) belief. Now, some Americans mistakenly view church-state issues as a series of obscure court cases that involve prayers and Bible-reading in public schools, efforts to eliminate teaching of evolution, or divisive legal questions surrounding religious symbols on public property during the December holidays. The proper balance between religion and state is a major issue that will never go away. Many Americans believe the question was permanently settled long ago by the adoption of Constitution, and the vigorous support of church-state separation by people such as Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. Despite numerous attempts to undermine those bedrock constitutional guarantees, Jefferson's "wall of separation” requires constant maintenance. That wall has enabled both religion and state to prosper and grow strong in the U.S. Americans who would eliminate the separation of church and state should remember that such a position is a recipe for disaster. When religion and state become entangled and intertwined, atrocities inevitably occur. Throughout history, religious minorities and dissidents have been the victims of persecution, even murder, at the hands of the majority. Those who advocate a commingling of church and state need to recall that many early settlers came to these shores fleeing hostile governments and tyrannical religious institutions, seeking liberty and freedom of conscience. Think of Quakers, Pilgrims, French Huguenots, Roman Catholics, Jews, Baptists and a host of other religious groups that sought escape from regimes that harassed them because their beliefs were not part of the "establishment.” Retired Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor said it best in rendering her last Supreme Court opinion: "Why ... trade a system that has served us so well for one that has served others so poorly?” Rabbi James A. Rudin is the American Jewish Committee's senior inter-religious adviser. The "Keeping the Faith” column invites contributions by Oklahoma ministers and religious leaders. To be considered, e-mail columns of about 500 words to chinton@oklahoman.com or mail to Religion News, The Oklahoman, P.O. Box 25125, Oklahoma City, OK 73125" .....................This motherfucker is right on. Well written article. Bravo! I'd love it if I could let go of my anger towards religion these days. If only these religious extremist would stop trying to tread on my beloved Constitution. I mean really, I act out at religion because, as this article points out so well, I feel it threatens this country and for that matter the whole fucking planet. I know my place. Do these people of faith know there's? We're on a plant together, get over your lofty aspirational quest to "save" the world...while ignoring that you're destroying it! I can't believe The Oklahoman printed this. Goddamned miracle...lol...oh!, And WORD allowed "goddamned" as correct on the spell check!...PROGRESS! Have a whatever day! ô¿ô __________________ “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act”. George Orwell Last edited by okpfloyd; 01-16-2008 at 05:07 PM.
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01-17-2008, 10:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
mentor Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,094 My Mood: Thanks: 17 Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts	Regardless if one is a Christian Fundamentalist or a militant athiest, or like most of us, somewhere in between, we should all agree that separation of Church and State is on of the greatest ideas in our constitution and one that we must continue to uphold. __________________ “I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.” Frank Lloyd Wright
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01-18-2008, 09:40 AM	#9 (permalink)
gorillamom Beyond Liberal Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 2,153 My Mood: Thanks: 47 Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts	Like I said in another thread, I saw a bumper sticker that said it all. "God please protect me from your followers" Another one of my favorite one's is "My Godess Gave Birth to your God" Another one that I think applies to these religious fanatics "Don't let your brain wander, It's too little to be left alone" __________________ The Clock of life is wound but once, And no man has the power, To tell just when the hands will stop On what day or what hour. Now is the only time we have, So live it with a will, Don't wait until tomorrow, The hands may then be still.
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