who or what is God to you? - Page 40

LeisureChrist · 01-23-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D.

You said he was of the same ilk. I say he is not.

I did no such thing. I said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeisureChrist

OK. Take five. Franky, I do not discount the possibility of there being a god. Or even multiple gods. But human notions of god are exactly the same ilk as Superman, the flying spaghetti monster, and the tooth fairy. No matter how closely a given religion may be to ultimate truth (and there is no compelling reason to choose any one over another, or any at all), all religions are constructs of human minds, while a god is beyond human imagination. Therefore, all religion is humans attempting to codify, define, and relate what can never be expressed in words.

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How do you know God emanated from man's imagination?

Again... Not God. Ideas of God.

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But if God is God surely he can communicate basic truths to little old us.

The limit lies not with God but with man. If God is limited to using words that you understand, he can never tell you anything that cannot be put into those words. God could get around this by using something better than words, but man cannot. Thus, any religion that relies upon human describing to human is less than the ultimate truth of God because it attempts to convey what man cannot grasp in words that he can.

Gaia · 01-23-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Ask yourself the following question: would you have any respect for a God that was more concerned with proving himself to you than having you prove yourself to him?

You have various histories of millions saying it. You have Jesus saying it. Most doubted he was the real deal. Many still do. What "proof" would be sufficient?

We all experience that.

I don't KNOW what it would take to convince me. I don't know ANYTHING, it seems. Compared to most.

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one not "getting" it. I see people all happy and comfortable in their faiths and beliefs, and I'm out here, in the dark. It is a weird, disconnect feeling, for sure.

LeisureChrist · 01-23-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Agreed. But Leisure seems to be asserting we could not possibly know the mind or the objective of God. I only partially agree. We surely cannot know God's mind, but we can be nudged in the direction we should walk in.

Any path that involves acceptance, respect, forgiveness, and understanding is probably a good direction.

Mike D. · 01-23-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeisureChrist

Again... Not God. Ideas of God.

OK. Still not compariable. I have never heard of God flying around in tights and a red cape to save humankind from criminals and superfoes.

Quote:

The limit lies not with God but with man. If God is limited to using words that you understand, he can never tell you anything that cannot be put into those words. God could get around this by using something better than words, but man cannot. Thus, any religion that relies upon human describing to human is less than the ultimate truth of God because it attempts to convey what man cannot grasp in words that he can.

But the basic precepts can be grasped. Jesus parsed it down into two primary rules. It is not complicated.

Gaia · 01-23-2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeisureChrist

I did no such thing. I said:

Again... Not God. Ideas of God.

The limit lies not with God but with man. If God is limited to using words that you understand, he can never tell you anything that cannot be put into those words. God could get around this by using something better than words, but man cannot. Thus, any religion that relies upon human describing to human is less than the ultimate truth of God because it attempts to convey what man cannot grasp in words that he can.

Actually it was me who asked: "Is God just another Superman"? in my first post this evening. I gotta take the heat for THAT.

Mike D. · 01-23-2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaia

I don't KNOW what it would take to convince me. I don't know ANYTHING, it seems. Compared to most.

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one not "getting" it. I see people all happy and comfortable in their faiths and beliefs, and I'm out here, in the dark. It is a weird, disconnect feeling, for sure.

We've all been there. It isn't just you. The bitch is you won't get the assurance you seek without the faith which is required. God doesn't seem to want us to have our dessert before our meal...

Gaia · 01-23-2008, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D.

We've all been there. It isn't just you. The bitch is you won't get the assurance you seek without the faith which is required. God doesn't seem to want us to have our dessert before our meal...

A Friend sent me an Article awile back, titled "Experiencing a Dark Night of the Soul", and I thought, well, that is me! That's how I feel. But it didn't say if and/or when it ends, if ever.

Gaia · 01-23-2008, 06:03 PM

There's a Show coming on the History Channel called "Life after People", I'm going to check it out. See you all later!

Thank you for your input everyone! I appreciate it!

LeisureChrist · 01-23-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D.

OK. Still not compariable. I have never heard of God flying around in tights and a red cape to save humankind from criminals and superfoes.

He could if he wanted to

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But the basic precepts can be grasped. Jesus parsed it down into two primary rules. It is not complicated.

I dunno... The first part, the part about loving God seems simple enough in the abstract, but then you realize that you are being called upon to feel the purest version of the most powerful feeling and to feel that feeling toward something you cannot even begin to wrap your head around. Again, because of the limits of human minds, what you end up loving is not God, but rather your IDEA of God. Because of those limits, your idea of God cannot be wholly accurate. Of course, God would understand these limits (far better than you and I ever could) and no doubt makes allowances for what we get wrong in trying to love him.

The second, the part about loving our neighbors? Human beings are so adept at finding reasons to see others as not being neighbors. It's shame, really. The parable of the Good Samaritan is, IMHO, the most beautiful part of the Bible. But we still ignore it all the time. To some (including one on this very board), the Iraqis who have been killed in our war in their nation are not really neighbors because of what other people entirely did 7 1/2 years ago. To some, the people on the other side of an imaginary line in the sand at the southern tip of Texas are not neighbors.

Mike D. · 01-23-2008, 06:12 PM

[quote=LeisureChrist;84427]He could if he wanted to

LOL.

Quote:

I dunno... The first part, the part about loving God seems simple enough in the abstract, but then you realize that you are being called upon to feel the purest version of the most powerful feeling and to feel that feeling toward something you cannot even begin to wrap your head around. Again, because of the limits of human minds, what you end up loving is not God, but rather your IDEA of God. Because of those limits, your idea of God cannot be wholly accurate. Of course, God would understand these limits (far better than you and I ever could) and no doubt makes allowances for what we get wrong in trying to love him.

But the honest act of loving is what would matter.

Quote:

The second, the part about loving our neighbors? Human beings are so adept at finding reasons to see others as not being neighbors. It's shame, really. The parable of the Good Samaritan is, IMHO, the most beautiful part of the Bible. But we still ignore it all the time. To some (including one on this very board), the Iraqis who have been killed in our war in their nation are not really neighbors because of what other people entirely did 7 1/2 years ago. To some, the people on the other side of an imaginary line in the sand at the southern tip of Texas are not neighbors.

Jesus' "love your neighbor as yourself" only works when the "as yourself" part is adhered to. You can't expect me or anyone else to welcome Mexicans as a whole with open arms when they are illegally crossing the border and working in my birth-country tax-free while I can not. Jesus' teachings only truly work when everyone is folloiwng them.

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