OCF: Tell me this isn't a crusade! - Page 2

Gaia · 02-18-2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Heretic

Now it's Duct and cover.

*sigh*

Duct Tape has the same protective Powers as that little wooden Desk!

jowey · 02-18-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaia

I fully understand the shock from, during and after what happened on 9/11. I was all: "yeah, lets get Usama Bin Laden and all those responsible"! Then...time passed...no Usama. No calling the Saudis out. No nothin'. Yeah, we went and bombed some things in Afghanistan. Then the war drums began beating against Saddam Hussein and Iraq. And I began to have a very bad feeling that I was being "played". To this day, that feeling has not left me.

Perhaps the military is promoting religious fanaticism, because this IS a Crusade!

It is NOT our military as a collective.....

Like this country there are personalities that tend towards fanaticism. Their goal will be to get to the areas where they can "do the most good", find their "niche" and kill the "evil ones" for the cause.

It is concerning that those in the military and our politicians are presenting the image to our enemies that we as a country are on a crusade against Muslims. This makes the local Muslim shop owner concerned about the foreign invaders seeking to steal their property, women and religion, under a Christian banner.

Now the local Muslim shop owner wants to fight us on our turf and terrorism, guerrilla warfare, win by attrition are the only tactics that can fight our technology.

The problem is how to get out of this, Bush's plan, if it is his plan, is to get us so deep into this mess that the only solution is genocide.

Gaia · 02-18-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jowey

It is NOT our military as a collective.....

Like this country there are personalities that tend towards fanaticism. Their goal will be to get to the areas where they can "do the most good", find their "niche" and kill the "evil ones" for the cause.

It is concerning that those in the military and our politicians are presenting the image to our enemies that we as a country are on a crusade against Muslims. This makes the local Muslim shop owner concerned about the foreign invaders seeking to steal their property, women and religion, under a Christian banner.

Now the local Muslim shop owner wants to fight us on our turf and terrorism, guerrilla warfare, win by attrition are the only tactics that can fight our technology.

The problem is how to get out of this, Bush's plan, if it is his plan, is to get us so deep into this mess that the only solution is genocide.

I have absolutely NO Idea how we get out of this mess. I have lost whatever little faith I had in the political system as a whole.

jowey · 02-18-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaia

I have absolutely NO Idea how we get out of this mess. I have lost whatever little faith I had in the political system as a whole.

If we had taken action in 2004 or actually impeached this administration, demonstrated that we were proactive in addressing the problem and did not support the aggression, we may have been able to back out.

We did not and our enemies cause built momentum, it now has mass. Rather than a small problem with some radical nut cases, Bush gave us a big problem, a crusade, for this millennium.

Lets see what 2008 brings....

BillCosby · 02-18-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jowey

No kidding about the flags, lets not forget our catch phrase "HOMELAND". I heard that and thought "FATHERLAND" and "MOTHERLAND" - we are Fascists.

When I confronted people about it they called me unpatriotic and stupid - so I recognized that this was the countries choice.

911 demanded a response but we could not even do that right, our actions have empowered the enemy so now we have a stronger and evolving enemy that is growing by pointing to our Crusade against them.

They can say "fight them over there" in the United States "so that we do not have to fight them here" [Iraq, Iran, Saudi......fill in the blank _____].

But we all know now (I hope) that this action was an incorrect move - it is a shame that the military is promoting religious fanaticism. I know that this is not accepted in the majority of the military population.

Yep bush saying crusade was one of the dumbest comments by an american president............

Especially since there is some truth to it....... @ least in his own mind..........

I am still wondering what happened to our peace dividend????

Gaia · 02-18-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jowey

If we had taken action in 2004 or actually impeached this administration, demonstrated that we were proactive in addressing the problem and did not support the aggression, we may have been able to back out.

We did not and our enemies cause built momentum, it now has mass. Rather than a small problem with some radical nut cases, Bush gave us a big problem, a crusade, for this millennium.

Lets see what 2008 brings....

All true! We DO have a VERY big problem now. I too was hoping there would be action in 2004. I was wrong to have such a foolish "hope".

I am seriously wondering, what is going on with the American People as a whole.

I really don't like anyone running for President this time. They all say the same cookie cutter stuff: "health care...blah, blah", "imigration, blah, blah. "iraq, blah, blah", "change, blah, blah", "restoring our good reputation on the world stage, blah, blah". I could go on....but you get my point. Now I don't know WHAT to do.

It's frustrating!

Gaia · 02-18-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillCosby

Yep bush saying crusade was one of the dumbest comments by an american president............

Especially since there is some truth to it....... @ least in his own mind..........

I am still wondering what happened to our peace dividend????

REALLY, wasn't it tho'?? I sat here and listened to him say it and I went : Oh...My...God...! He said CRUSADE! And my Heart sank.

And yes, I do believe you are right, as to there being truth to it!

I'm wondering about alot of things these days.

I've been watching a Show titled "The Revolution", on the History Channel, every tuesday nite. And seeing the struggles, hardships and sacrifice it took, for America to even BE, it is a horrid Shame, how everyone (well, seems to me too many people) has/have become so complacent, that it seems we are in danger of losing America, as the IDEA that it was, to begin with.

It worries me.

jowey · 02-18-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaia

All true! We DO have a VERY big problem now. I too was hoping there would be action in 2004. I was wrong to have such a foolish "hope".

I am seriously wondering, what is going on with the American People as a whole.

I really don't like anyone running for President this time. They all say the same cookie cutter stuff: "health care...blah, blah", "imigration, blah, blah. "iraq, blah, blah", "change, blah, blah", "restoring our good reputation on the world stage, blah, blah". I could go on....but you get my point. Now I don't know WHAT to do.

It's frustrating!

It seems to be the name of the game, hope there is "hope". I find it upsetting that we hear hours of mainstream democrats or republicans but nothing of Ron Paul, Mike Gravel or the independents.

What is their message ?
Why cant the media at least mention them ?

BillCosby · 02-18-2008, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaia

REALLY, wasn't it tho'?? I sat here and listened to him say it and I went : Oh...My...God...! He said CRUSADE! And my Heart sank.

And yes, I do believe you are right, as to there being truth to it!

I'm wondering about alot of things these days.

I've been watching a Show titled "The Revolution", on the History Channel, every tuesday nite. And seeing the struggles, hardships and sacrifice it took, for America to even BE, it is a horrid Shame, how everyone (well, seems to me too many people) has/have become so complacent, that it seems we are in danger of losing America, as the IDEA that it was, to begin with.

It worries me.

IMO it is very unfortunate that America has not, nor has it perhaps ever, lived up to what we were told & what we believed........

What idea or ideal was it that you believe it was???

Gaia · 02-19-2008, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillCosby

IMO it is very unfortunate that America has not, nor has it perhaps ever, lived up to what we were told & what we believed........

What idea or ideal was it that you believe it was???

This one:

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame,
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

by Emma Lazarus, New York City, 1883

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