So what is... - Page 3

Alinea · 02-20-2008, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djack

Sin is in the eye of the beholder. To some anything that disagrees with their view is a sin.

Hey Djack...may I call you Jack? Perhaps you would like a spot on Comics' team too? Secretary of Commerce? Or any creative position you can name.

Heretic · 02-20-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaia

Interesting News Thread you got in the Corner Bar! Love it!

VOTE FOR COMICS FOR PRESIDENT!

"Heretical News Netowrk is a public news service financed by repuation points from readers like you."

Thank you.

Gaia · 02-21-2008, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Heretic

"Heretical News Netowrk is a public news service financed by repuation points from readers like you."

Thank you.

welcome!

Heretic · 02-21-2008, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaia

welcome!

"Your support of Heretical News Network is greatly appreciated and we hope you continue to enjoy our programming."

Vicariously I · 02-21-2008, 09:03 AM

I think if loving your enemies is that hardest thing it's not because we are unable to put ourselves in their shoes. People always say that it's hard to truly put yourself in someone else’s shoes and yet we do it everyday.

The reason loving our enemies is hard is simply because we have such a hard time taking OUR shoes off.

Pride is the sin that leads to all other sins no?

So in fact I believe that the hardest thing for us to do is to let go. To let go of what we think we know. To let go of how we think people should live. To let go of our judgments of those whose lives we do not understand. To have predetermined ideas who people should be is to forgo any ability to see who they truly are.

When people talk about violence and conflict they only focus on themselves and how it will affect them. Even when we talk about our enemies or even other people's enemies we are still focusing on our selves. It's easy for example to look at a kid from the ghetto who killed someone while robbing them and say this person is horrible, evil and should locked up or put to death. We can understand this and it makes us feel safe without putting any thought into it, which allows us to continue on with our lives. It’s something completely different when you learn that this kid lost his father when he was a baby. His mother was a drug addict and the only people that were there to look out for him were criminals and gang bangers. Now the natural response to this is "oh what that makes it ok for him to kill someone?"

Well of course it doesn't. The point is it's much easier when the person is pure evil because then they are no longer a person. This kid did not ask to be born. He did not ask to be born into a family that would abandon him the moment he was born. He did not ask to be raised buy criminals and gang bangers. He knows nothing of life other that what he has been shown. He has mostly and anger and confusion as to what the purpose of his life is. His head is filled with ideas of hate and racism. Taught that other people hate him and will never do anything to help him.

For anyone to say that through all that and much more they would still not be a “bad” person is to put yourself in this kids shoes without taking yours off first. So if this kid had very little choice as to who he would become does that still make him a bad person? Is it still so easy to throw him away?

What the world needs is more understanding because if we don’t stop now and look at the root of these problems they will only continue to grow. Most people for instance who watch what is happening in the Middle East have no history of the Middle East. They only know what is happening now and have no idea how the people have come to be in the position they are in. They see only a very small portion of clusterfuck that is the middle east situation and so it is much easier to judge them in such a way as to satisfy there feelings about it.

mentor · 02-21-2008, 09:35 AM

Well said Vicariously I. I think the concept of being "saved" plays into this lack of empathy. When one looks upon others as being condemned by God, it becomes impossible to put one's self in their shoes.

Gaia · 02-21-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicariously I

I think if loving your enemies is that hardest thing it's not because we are unable to put ourselves in their shoes. People always say that it's hard to truly put yourself in someone else’s shoes and yet we do it everyday.

The reason loving our enemies is hard is simply because we have such a hard time taking OUR shoes off.

Pride is the sin that leads to all other sins no?

So in fact I believe that the hardest thing for us to do is to let go. To let go of what we think we know. To let go of how we think people should live. To let go of our judgments of those whose lives we do not understand. To have predetermined ideas who people should be is to forgo any ability to see who they truly are.

When people talk about violence and conflict they only focus on themselves and how it will affect them. Even when we talk about our enemies or even other people's enemies we are still focusing on our selves. It's easy for example to look at a kid from the ghetto who killed someone while robbing them and say this person is horrible, evil and should locked up or put to death. We can understand this and it makes us feel safe without putting any thought into it, which allows us to continue on with our lives. It’s something completely different when you learn that this kid lost his father when he was a baby. His mother was a drug addict and the only people that were there to look out for him were criminals and gang bangers. Now the natural response to this is "oh what that makes it ok for him to kill someone?"

Well of course it doesn't. The point is it's much easier when the person is pure evil because then they are no longer a person. This kid did not ask to be born. He did not ask to be born into a family that would abandon him the moment he was born. He did not ask to be raised buy criminals and gang bangers. He knows nothing of life other that what he has been shown. He has mostly and anger and confusion as to what the purpose of his life is. His head is filled with ideas of hate and racism. Taught that other people hate him and will never do anything to help him.

For anyone to say that through all that and much more they would still not be a “bad” person is to put yourself in this kids shoes without taking yours off first. So if this kid had very little choice as to who he would become does that still make him a bad person? Is it still so easy to throw him away?

What the world needs is more understanding because if we don’t stop now and look at the root of these problems they will only continue to grow. Most people for instance who watch what is happening in the Middle East have no history of the Middle East. They only know what is happening now and have no idea how the people have come to be in the position they are in. They see only a very small portion of clusterfuck that is the middle east situation and so it is much easier to judge them in such a way as to satisfy there feelings about it.

Well said!

And quite the dilemma. Because people are basically selfish (i don't exclude myself), it's the survival instinct mostly. Leaves little room for sympathy and/or understanding ones' or another's motives and/or perceived enemies. Theologies of all kinds are not really helping, just making things worse. (in my opinion)

djack · 02-21-2008, 02:28 PM

I'd never join a group that would have me as a member. No thanks.

Alinea · 02-21-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicariously I

I think if loving your enemies is that hardest thing it's not because we are unable to put ourselves in their shoes. People always say that it's hard to truly put yourself in someone else’s shoes and yet we do it everyday.

The reason loving our enemies is hard is simply because we have such a hard time taking OUR shoes off.

Pride is the sin that leads to all other sins no?

So in fact I believe that the hardest thing for us to do is to let go. To let go of what we think we know. To let go of how we think people should live. To let go of our judgments of those whose lives we do not understand. To have predetermined ideas who people should be is to forgo any ability to see who they truly are.

When people talk about violence and conflict they only focus on themselves and how it will affect them. Even when we talk about our enemies or even other people's enemies we are still focusing on our selves. It's easy for example to look at a kid from the ghetto who killed someone while robbing them and say this person is horrible, evil and should locked up or put to death. We can understand this and it makes us feel safe without putting any thought into it, which allows us to continue on with our lives. It’s something completely different when you learn that this kid lost his father when he was a baby. His mother was a drug addict and the only people that were there to look out for him were criminals and gang bangers. Now the natural response to this is "oh what that makes it ok for him to kill someone?"

Well of course it doesn't. The point is it's much easier when the person is pure evil because then they are no longer a person. This kid did not ask to be born. He did not ask to be born into a family that would abandon him the moment he was born. He did not ask to be raised buy criminals and gang bangers. He knows nothing of life other that what he has been shown. He has mostly and anger and confusion as to what the purpose of his life is. His head is filled with ideas of hate and racism. Taught that other people hate him and will never do anything to help him.

For anyone to say that through all that and much more they would still not be a “bad” person is to put yourself in this kids shoes without taking yours off first. So if this kid had very little choice as to who he would become does that still make him a bad person? Is it still so easy to throw him away?

What the world needs is more understanding because if we don’t stop now and look at the root of these problems they will only continue to grow. Most people for instance who watch what is happening in the Middle East have no history of the Middle East. They only know what is happening now and have no idea how the people have come to be in the position they are in. They see only a very small portion of clusterfuck that is the middle east situation and so it is much easier to judge them in such a way as to satisfy there feelings about it.

It's harder to convince others that everyone is capable of being, for lack of a better word, rehabilitated. So I think most of what you said here is true.

Though a tangent thought - you're saying the kid had no choices because of his home life yet we constantly ask if other media influences violence. Is it one, the other, or both? I suspect everyone is exposed to both good and bad choices, no matter what they blame.

Alinea · 02-21-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djack

I'd never join a group that would have me as a member. No thanks.

Yet, you're a member here.

It's okay. Never hurts to ask though.

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