Pope baptizes prominent Italian Muslim

BillCosby · 03-23-2008, 12:12 PM

maybe there is hope for those savages afterall.... Every Catholic can adopt one like the Australians did the aboriginal children or the AMericans did the Indians... Take away their kids for their own good....

By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer Sat Mar 22, 9:24 PM ET

VATICAN CITY - Italy's most prominent Muslim, an iconoclastic writer who condemned Islamic extremism and defended Israel, converted to Catholicism Saturday in a baptism by the pope at a Vatican Easter service.

An Egyptian-born, non-practicing Muslim who is married to a Catholic, Magdi Allam infuriated some Muslims with his books and columns in the newspaper Corriere della Sera newspaper, where he is a deputy editor. He titled one book "Long Live Israel."

As a choir sang, Pope Benedict XVI poured holy water over Allam's head and said a brief prayer in Latin.

"We no longer stand alongside or in opposition to one another," Benedict said in a homily reflecting on the meaning of baptism. "Thus faith is a force for peace and reconciliation in the world: distances between people are overcome, in the Lord we have become close."

Vatican Television zoomed in on Allam, who sat in the front row of the basilica along with six other candidates for baptism. He later received his first Communion.

Allam, 55, told the newspaper Il Giornale in a December interview that his criticism of Palestinian suicide bombing provoked threats on his life in 2003, prompting the Italian government to provide him with a sizable security detail.

The Union of Islamic Communities in Italy — which Allam has frequently criticized as having links to Hamas — said the baptism was his own decision.

"He is an adult, free to make his personal choice," the Apcom news agency quoted the group's spokesman, Issedin El Zir, as saying.

Yahya Pallavicini, vice president of Coreis, the Islamic religious community in Italy, said he respected Allam's choice but said he was "perplexed" by the symbolic and high-profile way in which he chose to convert.

"If Allam truly was compelled by a strong spiritual inspiration, perhaps it would have been better to do it delicately, maybe with a priest from Viterbo where he lives," the ANSA news agency quoted Pallavicini as saying.

The nighttime Easter vigil service at St. Peter's Basilica marked the period between Good Friday, which commemorates Jesus' crucifixion, and Easter Sunday, which marks his resurrection.

Benedict opened by blessing a white candle, which he then carried down the main aisle of the darkened basilica. Slowly, the pews began to light up as his flame was shared with candles carried by the faithful, until the whole basilica twinkled and the main lights came on.

The pope administers baptism "without making any 'difference of people,' that is, considering all equally important before the love of God and welcoming all in the community of the Church," said the Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi.

Allam, who has a young son with his Catholic wife and two adult children from a previous relationship, indicated in the Il Giornale interview that he would have no problem converting to Christianity. He said he had even received Communion once — when he was 13 or 14 — "even though I knew it was an act of blasphemy, not having been baptized."

He did not speak to the press Saturday and his newspaper said it had no information about his conversion.

Allam said in the interview that he had made a pilgrimage to Mecca, as is required of all Muslims, with his deeply religious mother in 1991, although he was not otherwise observant.

"I was never practicing," he was quoted as saying. "I never prayed five times a day, facing Mecca. I never fasted during Ramadan."

Allam also explained his decision to title a recent book "Viva Israele" by saying he wrote it after he received death threats from Hamas.

"Having been condemned to death, I have reflected a long time on the value of life. And I discovered that behind the origin of the ideology of hatred, violence and death is the discrimination against Israel. Everyone has the right to exist except for the Jewish state and its inhabitants," he said. "Today, Israel is the paradigm of the right to life."

In 2006, Allam was a co-winner, with three other journalists, of the $1 million Dan David prize, named for an Israeli entrepreneur. Allam was cited for "his ceaseless work in fostering understanding and tolerance between cultures."

There is no overarching Muslim law on conversion. But under a widespread interpretation of Islamic legal doctrine, converting from Islam is apostasy and punishable by death — though killings are rare.

Egypt's highest Islamic cleric, the Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa, wrote last year against the killing of apostates, saying there is no worldly retribution for Muslims who abandon their religion and that punishment would come in the afterlife.

On Wednesday, a new audio message from Osama bin Laden accused the pope of playing a "large and lengthy role" in a "new Crusade" against Islam that included the publication of drawings of the Prophet Muhammad that many Muslims found insulting.

Lombardi said Thursday that bin Laden's accusation was baseless. He said Benedict repeatedly criticized the Muhammad cartoons, first published in some European newspapers in 2006 and republished by Danish papers in February.

Dianekkdi · 04-05-2008, 06:33 PM

hmmm.

I was discussing religion today.

I remember 1st and 2nd grade Roman Catholic parochial school.

We were taught that when Jesus and the thief were put before the people to see who would be condemned and who would go free Pontius Pilot seeded the audience. Thus the Romans are the true guilty ones in the death of Jesus.

I said I think it is funny how they always blame the Romans. Romans were simply Italians from Rome. Italians killed Jesus and blamed it on the Jews.

The Jews being Jews...are more than accommodating in taking the blame. What's a little more guilt?

The Italian Catholics...boy...do they have shit to be guilty about!

Now...the Muslims...not only would they have killed Jesus given the chance...they would have taken credit if they'd just been around.

So...mirror, mirror on the wall....who's the biggest of them all?

Really, does it matter which group you belong to? Aren't they all pretty well fucked when it comes to pissing off God?

BillCosby · 04-05-2008, 06:58 PM

Well I agree w/ some of that especially the last line but............

Blame is all about well blame............ I don't think you can blame anyone here...

If you believe what he (Jesus) said then you know why he did it...... This event, according to him & others was foretold long before this event & they were fulfilling prophecy....... Do you blame Jews or Romans or Italians for fulfilling prophecy????

Blame is really about us making ourselves feel better.......... Or a tool to manipulate ppl..........

TrueBlueAmerican · 04-05-2008, 07:17 PM

The Vatican City is long overdue for an invasion if you ask me.

BillCosby · 04-05-2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueBlueAmerican

The Vatican City is long overdue for an invasion if you ask me.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!! Anyone in particular you have in mind invading them.......????

They got lots of jewels I would imagine & lots of old books & bones but no oil or other natural resources........ Where is our vital or strategic interest= "american interest" here...........???

cheapseats · 04-05-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillCosby

...Magdi Allam infuriated some Muslims with his books and columns in the newspaper Corriere della Sera newspaper, where he is a deputy editor. He titled one book "Long Live Israel."

As a choir sang, Pope Benedict XVI poured holy water over Allam's head and said a brief prayer in Latin.

For any who are unfamiliar with the famed, the acclaimed, also the notorious Catholic Church, it is an EXTRAORDINARILY big deal to be baptized by the former-Nazi Pope himself.

Quote:

"We no longer stand alongside or in opposition to one another," Benedict said in a homily reflecting on the meaning of baptism. "Thus faith is a force for peace and reconciliation in the world: distances between people are overcome, in the Lord we have become close."

Sounds good. Religious stuff always does on paper. But PARTICULARLY with the Catholic Church are we obliged to be skeptical. We are OBLIGED. Children were hurt. Adults suffer still.

It is my understanding that the Catholic Church was the wealthiest organization and largest landowner on earth, until they had to start paying out mind-boggling sums of tax-free bucks to maybe assist but hopefully silence victims of true Terror that was repeatedly inflicted by CHILD MOLESTERS for whom the Church covered.

I am sadly inclined to ask what donation the prominent man may have made to the Church, whether by cash, property, asset, service, waiver or other means of value.

Quote:

Vatican Television zoomed in on Allam, who sat in the front row of the basilica along with six other candidates for baptism. He later received his first Communion.

Television coverage is very wanted, in certain circles.

Quote:

Allam, 55, told the newspaper Il Giornale in a December interview that his criticism of Palestinian suicide bombing provoked threats on his life in 2003, prompting the Italian government to provide him with a sizable security detail.

He is not being at all discreet, almost as though he is courting notice.

Quote:

The Union of Islamic Communities in Italy — which Allam has frequently criticized as having links to Hamas — said the baptism was his own decision.

"He is an adult, free to make his personal choice," the Apcom news agency quoted the group's spokesman, Issedin El Zir, as saying.

That sounds reassuringly non-wacko.

Quote:

Yahya Pallavicini, vice president of Coreis, the Islamic religious community in Italy, said he respected Allam's choice but said he was "perplexed" by the symbolic and high-profile way in which he chose to convert.

"If Allam truly was compelled by a strong spiritual inspiration, perhaps it would have been better to do it delicately, maybe with a priest from Viterbo where he lives," the ANSA news agency quoted Pallavicini as saying.

That sounds reasonable, too. Phew.

Quote:

The nighttime Easter vigil service at St. Peter's Basilica marked the period between Good Friday, which commemorates Jesus' crucifixion, and Easter Sunday, which marks his resurrection.

Big, BIG deal.

Quote:

The pope administers baptism "without making any 'difference of people,' that is, considering all equally important before the love of God and welcoming all in the community of the Church," said the Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi.

The Pope administers baptism equally among those who are in his audience...let us not pretend that it is first-come-first-served, or that the Pope will stand there in his Prada loafers until the last person who wants an authentic Papal baptism gets their two splashes-hold-the-sense.

Quote:

Allam, who has a young son with his Catholic wife and two adult children from a previous relationship, indicated in the Il Giornale interview that he would have no problem converting to Christianity. He said he had even received Communion once — when he was 13 or 14 — "even though I knew it was an act of blasphemy, not having been baptized."

Not so fast there. How devout, how reverent that he remarks upon his own past blasphemy...taking Communion AS A CHILD, probably when he slept over on Saturday night at his Catholic friend's house. Big deal. Let's talk about those "two adult children from a previous relationship."

Correct me if I'm wrong, the Rules state that divorcees cannot remarry in the Catholic Church. That is why one of the Kennedy Assholes had to buy an annulment after something like 17 years of marriage and 5 kids.

The Renaissance Popes sold forgiveness. For real.

Quote:

Allam also explained his decision to title a recent book "Viva Israele" by saying he wrote it after he received death threats from Hamas.

A high-profile baptism by His OTHER Royal Highness oughtta get sales going at a brisk clip. Not to mention death threats.

Quote:

"Having been condemned to death, I have reflected a long time on the value of life.

This could be true. He could be a good man. If he is, he will not only forgive but understand my cynicism and suspicion. He may think that a high-profile conversion will ease tensions, and maybe he's right. Who the hell knows...things that are taken on Faith are kinda hard to pin down.

I very much resent that NOTHING can be safely taken at face value, and NO ONE at their word.

Quote:

And I discovered that behind the origin of the ideology of hatred, violence and death is the discrimination against Israel.

Quite a leap, that.

Quote:

Everyone has the right to exist except for the Jewish state and its inhabitants," he said. "Today, Israel is the paradigm of the right to life."

This would be agreeable music to some people's ears, yes?

Quote:

There is no overarching Muslim law on conversion. But under a widespread interpretation of Islamic legal doctrine, converting from Islam is apostasy and punishable by death — though killings are rare.

Focus on fact before interpretation, "There is no overarching Muslim law on conversion."

I cannot recall specifics but I KNOW there were a few humdingers in Bible footnotes.

Here's an important man-made bit of bullshit. In the Bible, God set man's life span at 120. The footnote said He didn't mean that literally. I have rightly, I think, disregarded that particular interpreter's interpretation.

Quote:

Egypt's highest Islamic cleric, the Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa, wrote last year against the killing of apostates, saying there is no worldly retribution for Muslims who abandon their religion and that punishment would come in the afterlife.

Good man.

Lemme guess...I have to sit in the corner with the Reverend Wright.

Quote:

On Wednesday, a new audio message from Osama bin Laden accused the pope of playing a "large and lengthy role" in a "new Crusade" against Islam that included the publication of drawings of the Prophet Muhammad that many Muslims found insulting.

When O.B.Laden talks, people listen.

TrueBlueAmerican · 04-05-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillCosby

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!! Anyone in particular you have in mind invading them.......????

Some sort of secularist international brigade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillCosby

They got lots of jewels I would imagine & lots of old books & bones but no oil or other natural resources........ Where is our vital or strategic interest= "american interest" here...........???

One less loudmouth sacred authority spewing religious dribble. Thats enough reason for me.

BillCosby · 04-06-2008, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheapseats

Good man.

Lemme guess...I have to sit in the corner with the Reverend Wright.

No "you ppl" have to set in the cheap seats............

03-23-2008, 12:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
BillCosby The party of the pissed!! Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,502 My Mood: Thanks: 183 Thanked 117 Times in 91 Posts	Pope baptizes prominent Italian Muslim maybe there is hope for those savages afterall.... Every Catholic can adopt one like the Australians did the aboriginal children or the AMericans did the Indians... Take away their kids for their own good.... By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer Sat Mar 22, 9:24 PM ET VATICAN CITY - Italy's most prominent Muslim, an iconoclastic writer who condemned Islamic extremism and defended Israel, converted to Catholicism Saturday in a baptism by the pope at a Vatican Easter service. An Egyptian-born, non-practicing Muslim who is married to a Catholic, Magdi Allam infuriated some Muslims with his books and columns in the newspaper Corriere della Sera newspaper, where he is a deputy editor. He titled one book "Long Live Israel." As a choir sang, Pope Benedict XVI poured holy water over Allam's head and said a brief prayer in Latin. "We no longer stand alongside or in opposition to one another," Benedict said in a homily reflecting on the meaning of baptism. "Thus faith is a force for peace and reconciliation in the world: distances between people are overcome, in the Lord we have become close." Vatican Television zoomed in on Allam, who sat in the front row of the basilica along with six other candidates for baptism. He later received his first Communion. Allam, 55, told the newspaper Il Giornale in a December interview that his criticism of Palestinian suicide bombing provoked threats on his life in 2003, prompting the Italian government to provide him with a sizable security detail. The Union of Islamic Communities in Italy — which Allam has frequently criticized as having links to Hamas — said the baptism was his own decision. "He is an adult, free to make his personal choice," the Apcom news agency quoted the group's spokesman, Issedin El Zir, as saying. Yahya Pallavicini, vice president of Coreis, the Islamic religious community in Italy, said he respected Allam's choice but said he was "perplexed" by the symbolic and high-profile way in which he chose to convert. "If Allam truly was compelled by a strong spiritual inspiration, perhaps it would have been better to do it delicately, maybe with a priest from Viterbo where he lives," the ANSA news agency quoted Pallavicini as saying. The nighttime Easter vigil service at St. Peter's Basilica marked the period between Good Friday, which commemorates Jesus' crucifixion, and Easter Sunday, which marks his resurrection. Benedict opened by blessing a white candle, which he then carried down the main aisle of the darkened basilica. Slowly, the pews began to light up as his flame was shared with candles carried by the faithful, until the whole basilica twinkled and the main lights came on. The pope administers baptism "without making any 'difference of people,' that is, considering all equally important before the love of God and welcoming all in the community of the Church," said the Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi. Allam, who has a young son with his Catholic wife and two adult children from a previous relationship, indicated in the Il Giornale interview that he would have no problem converting to Christianity. He said he had even received Communion once — when he was 13 or 14 — "even though I knew it was an act of blasphemy, not having been baptized." He did not speak to the press Saturday and his newspaper said it had no information about his conversion. Allam said in the interview that he had made a pilgrimage to Mecca, as is required of all Muslims, with his deeply religious mother in 1991, although he was not otherwise observant. "I was never practicing," he was quoted as saying. "I never prayed five times a day, facing Mecca. I never fasted during Ramadan." Allam also explained his decision to title a recent book "Viva Israele" by saying he wrote it after he received death threats from Hamas. "Having been condemned to death, I have reflected a long time on the value of life. And I discovered that behind the origin of the ideology of hatred, violence and death is the discrimination against Israel. Everyone has the right to exist except for the Jewish state and its inhabitants," he said. "Today, Israel is the paradigm of the right to life." In 2006, Allam was a co-winner, with three other journalists, of the $1 million Dan David prize, named for an Israeli entrepreneur. Allam was cited for "his ceaseless work in fostering understanding and tolerance between cultures." There is no overarching Muslim law on conversion. But under a widespread interpretation of Islamic legal doctrine, converting from Islam is apostasy and punishable by death — though killings are rare. Egypt's highest Islamic cleric, the Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa, wrote last year against the killing of apostates, saying there is no worldly retribution for Muslims who abandon their religion and that punishment would come in the afterlife. On Wednesday, a new audio message from Osama bin Laden accused the pope of playing a "large and lengthy role" in a "new Crusade" against Islam that included the publication of drawings of the Prophet Muhammad that many Muslims found insulting. Lombardi said Thursday that bin Laden's accusation was baseless. He said Benedict repeatedly criticized the Muhammad cartoons, first published in some European newspapers in 2006 and republished by Danish papers in February. __________________ Preventive war is not war!!!!Counter-terror is not terror
	Top

04-05-2008, 06:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
Dianekkdi Truth, Justice & ... Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: A place between yesterday and tomorrow Posts: 603 Blog Entries: 6 Thanks: 2 Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts	hmmm. I was discussing religion today. I remember 1st and 2nd grade Roman Catholic parochial school. We were taught that when Jesus and the thief were put before the people to see who would be condemned and who would go free Pontius Pilot seeded the audience. Thus the Romans are the true guilty ones in the death of Jesus. I said I think it is funny how they always blame the Romans. Romans were simply Italians from Rome. Italians killed Jesus and blamed it on the Jews. The Jews being Jews...are more than accommodating in taking the blame. What's a little more guilt? The Italian Catholics...boy...do they have shit to be guilty about! Now...the Muslims...not only would they have killed Jesus given the chance...they would have taken credit if they'd just been around. So...mirror, mirror on the wall....who's the biggest of them all? Really, does it matter which group you belong to? Aren't they all pretty well fucked when it comes to pissing off God? __________________ ---------------------- Reinvestigate 9/11 Impeach......Prosecute......Imprison "...The force of public opinion cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed...." --Thomas Jefferson Last edited by Dianekkdi; 04-05-2008 at 06:50 PM.
	Top

04-05-2008, 06:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
BillCosby The party of the pissed!! Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,502 My Mood: Thanks: 183 Thanked 117 Times in 91 Posts	Well I agree w/ some of that especially the last line but............ Blame is all about well blame............ I don't think you can blame anyone here... If you believe what he (Jesus) said then you know why he did it...... This event, according to him & others was foretold long before this event & they were fulfilling prophecy....... Do you blame Jews or Romans or Italians for fulfilling prophecy???? Blame is really about us making ourselves feel better.......... Or a tool to manipulate ppl.......... __________________ Preventive war is not war!!!!Counter-terror is not terror
	Top

04-05-2008, 07:17 PM	#4 (permalink)
TrueBlueAmerican Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,066 Thanks: 22 Thanked 26 Times in 17 Posts	The Vatican City is long overdue for an invasion if you ask me.
	Top

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