Vicariously I

Lol, yeah but didn't you know that if you both don't have God in your lives your marriage will become rotten? You should ask your wife if she has ever doubted even for a moment the existence of the Holy Spirit. If so she is eternally damned and no matter what she does or how many times she asks, Jesus will not save her.

But hey, he's a swell guy otherwise.

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"It's hard to face reality when you're busy living in the American Dream."

Vicariously I

guest1234567

We've been married for almost 26 years. She knows how I feel about the stories.

disfigured

That wouldn't surprise me one bit. If it were entirely gospel and the apostles. I always thought it rather convenient that out of spite so many rulers of those times stricken his name from any official records.

Or possibly a hybrid of that. Like a rumor taken advantage of, about one guy who tipped some tables over and got nailed for it, pardon the pun. One piece of it true, the rest being explotive, much like rumors.

I try not to hold very much contempt for it though. It's our collective past. I find it fascinating speculating on its dynamics and self perpetuating nature. Many theologists have great insight on it. Many of them step outside their faith to try and gain as unbiased a perspective as possible. The real heavy hitters I mean from Harvard, GeorgeTown, and the like, not the "ministers" from some flunky Farwell like University. There are Jewish scholars who too take the least possible faithful perspective to give their studies the most legitimacy. If I hit the lottery and got sick of surrounding myself with material items and traveling, I'd probably go to school for theology and philosophy.

I know it's tough when we look at what's going on now, but is the only alternative trying to convert everyone to atheism? That aint happening. Nor is it what atheist do. Nor should it be the answer. Besides , we wouldn't know how to start a movement, nor would most of us want to. Even these frustrating events of our day are not solely caused by religion. Although I think if you could suddenly take away all the myths you'd have a hell of a lot of people standing there with guns in their hands wondering why they're trying to kill someone.

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Vicariously I

So you don't have God in your life and you've been married for 26 years? That priest I heard at the wedding I was just at must have meant only one of you need to have God in your lives. Yes, I'm sure that's what he would say. Either that or you're the devil and you're lying.


Either way I'm going to get my forks......

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"It's hard to face reality when you're busy living in the American Dream."

Vicariously I

Vicariously I

My main beef with religion is that it prevents us from learning the truth about our past and it holds us back from changing the future. You do know that many of the most prominent Christians think that Christ will return in our lifetimes and that the rapture is something they are looking forward to right? These people do not want us to change the future for the better because if there is no rapture then God was wrong. And the worst part is A. these people elect our politicians and B. these people are our politicians.

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"It's hard to face reality when you're busy living in the American Dream."

Vicariously I

guest1234567

aacck! Don't forkin' tase me bro!

Vicariously I

What, you want to be just another pickel for the rest of your life?

You'll take the forkin' power of God and like it.

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"It's hard to face reality when you're busy living in the American Dream."

Vicariously I

disfigured

I know we're behind because of it, but that's hindsight for the most part. It is what it was, so to speak.

The best thing right now would be for atheist to do the equavilant of what the religious do. Namely demand that it is their right not to have their views suppressed (no matter how goofy).

Problem is there are no discernible differences (then practicality) , or tangible views for an atheist to put for forth as his/her expressions.

Religious types get their views across and attempt to shape the world politically because in the U.S they claim to have the "right" to include beliefs in politics, moral decisions, and other peoples business.

What's an atheist going to bring to the table? "It doesn't matter to us", " we only look at things logically and practically". The problem then lies that we believe the religious view point is incorrect for all the obvious reasons (obvious to us anyway). Well that's just being anti-"their beliefs", and beliefs can't be disproved , because they never were proven to begin with.

The expression of our "beliefs" (for lack of a better term), can't be solely that the other person is full of shit. But that's what it boils down to. I prefer to call it a lack of belief in the unbelievable. Sort of a double negative , but it is in attempt to counteract very irrational thought to begin with.

So what does that leave us politically and socially to ensure that things stay tempered with all points of view? Nothing really. Is it really even our "Job" to make sure? Just tolerance and a hope that the far extremes of religion go so far as to piss off the main stream U.S, and have separation of church and state seem like a really good thing. That's what I bank on.

I always wondered if creating a god/religion who's only tenet was to live a logical life, and believe nothing that can't be proven yada yada, would make everything more acceptable to others.

Sort of an absentee god/religion. Would that make all the difference in the world to the general "theist" who just can't grasp atheism (terrible word, but the only out there now)?

There's a poster here who says: "I believe in a god, I just believe it makes utterly no difference."

I have no moral convictions into duping others into my lack of belief by pandering to theirs.

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Chungar

Lieutenant Daniel Taylor: Have you found Jesus yet, Gump?
Forrest Gump: I didn't know I was supposed to be looking for him

One of my all time favorite movies…

After reading some of this and thinking to myself what “religion” means to me it’s apparent that my response won’t be a quick few lines knocking EMan and his over-abundance of God Fearing Christian beliefs. It’s more complicated than that and to accurately portray my beliefs would require some time to think and write.

My background in these matters is not all that extensive outside of the traditional Christian years of my youth with a few additives tossed in. I went to Church on Sunday along with Sunday school until I was old enough to tell my folks that I really didn’t want to go. My Dad was an ordained Minister in the Lutheran Church for about 3 years while I was in Elementary school. My Mom also worked as a secretary at the church and during this time our family was very involved with lots of various church activities. These included marching in the Civil Rights marches in Norfolk, Va. in the late 60’s. If you’ve seen “Remember The Titans” which was based on a true story in 1971 in Va. about the African-American Coach that takes over a High School Football team to integrate the racial boundaries that were so prominent during that time… you’d get a good picture of the racial landscape. The only reason we participated was that it was the Christian thing to do and that my Dad told us we had to. But if not for his beliefs I wouldn’t have been there and some of those experiences are directly related to how I think to this day. My Dad eventually had to take a “normal” job to keep his family fed, clothed and under a half way decent roof. And we moved on to Chicago

As I said all was well and good until I got into my teens and I really didn’t want to waste my time every Sunday going to church. So I stopped going. No problem! The Parents were ok with it and I was happy. I had an open mind about God and I also started to experience life in many other ways… in Music… in Nature… in Girls… and in drugs… All of which I would never regret. The influences in my life are many and I’ve benefited from almost all of them. The Beatles, The Dead, Zappa, jazz, blues, reggae, bluegrass, hell even country… The Grand Tetons, Colorado in general, the north woods in Wisconsin, Anna Marie Island… Mr. Purple and Mr. Mean Green the next season! Those little buds where religious in nature – for Truth! And then the beautiful woman that eventually became my wife… I’ve been very lucky and blessed with the choices I’ve made and they’ve off paid ten fold. Like I said I have no regrets.

So as the story goes… a few years ago My Dad was walking in a VA hospital while going in for his meds. He was 73 at the time which he was lucky enough to attain. He weighed nearly 350 and had had 2 heart attacks, 5 bypasses, smoked for at least 35 years and drank his share of gin martinis. Well basically what happened while walking down a hallway was that he fell. He fell hard… hard enough that he was rushed to the hospital and put in ICU. The official story was that he either had a stroke and fell or he fell and hit his head so hard that it caused a stroke. He was tubed on a respirator and was only alive thanks to life support. My Mom had already passed a couple years before and My Wife and I were the only ones close by. I also had his Medical Power of Attorney and a copy of his living will which stated very clearly that he did not what to remain alive if there wasn’t a reasonable chance for a good life. There were 8 various doctors on his case and his condition remained about the same for nearly 2 weeks. What it came down to was that we needed the main Doctor along with 2 others to agree that his case was terminal. Only then would they remove life support. This was the hardest thing that I’ve ever dealt with in my life... Fighting the Doctors for the right to let my Dad die based on his wishes. Thinking that he’d be bed ridden for years after giving us explicit directions… I wasn’t about to deny those wishes. This went on for several days. Then while I’m a few blocks from work one morning I get a call from one of the Doctors saying that his case was not terminal and that we had no right to remove life support. I was devastated…

I was parked on the top floor of the parking garage sitting there thinking about what to do… And I looked up…
There was a perfect cross in the sky… it was the exhaust from two planes that crossed paths but it only made a cross. The lines didn’t continue on across the horizon. Just this perfect cross… And just like that… The weight of the reality that I faced was lifted. I have no other way to explain it. There isn’t any real explanation in my mind but it’s really what I felt in that moment. Was it coincidence? Maybe! Was it Angels sent from Heaven? Maybe! Was it a religious experience? Most definitely! The next day we got 3 other Doctors to agree that he wasn't going to survive and we had the life support removed. He was gone by the next morning.

So there you have it… With all that I’ve said. I still have my doubts. I think the Bible is the greatest story every written. That Christianity has brought more faith, forgiveness, charity, love, trust, death, blood, wars, distrust, dishonor, hypocrisy and judgment than anything in the history of mankind. And to be judged by Christians is so wrong.
The problem with righteousness is that there’s wrongfulness. You’re on the right side so by definition if I’m not with you I’m wrong. My Brother that passed away last year wasn’t a church going kinda guy. He had his doubts about the whole enchilada! But He had a great big heart and his soul was intact 100%. You tell me that he isn’t saved based on your definition – I say Fuck You! Keep your damn judgments to yourself! I hate righteous people. What’s sad about the whole thing is that I respect Christianity for the good it's brought and hate it for everything else.
With that said… Faith is a very powerful thing. It’s a spiritual healing! It can be found it in many things and in many places. My belief is that it's best found outside the church.

God Is Santa for Adults

Damn, I thought I was real...
Have a great day,
Santa

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Have Faith in Yourself...
. ...Not an invisible friend!

I Believe = I Guess Religion is an Illusion of Control!
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