Why America's Problem Is Cultural, Not Political - Page 2

Vicariously I · 10-09-2008, 08:22 AM

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Originally Posted by Malkavian

But... but i do like the material shit.

We all do don't we? I think that's what makes us so docile, so apathetic towards our government.

hotair · 10-11-2008, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rigged

I think this article makes a mediocre point. Still one that deserves to be explored. I think that culture is really a code word in stupidizees for socialization and conditioning which is really a cognitive science.

For example, I will pose a question, what potent influences on sustaining one's belief in say, an "afterlife?" Most people would answer, Church. What does that really mean though? It means that we are conditioned, brainwashed, and socialized by conscious efforts of our parents, peers, and teachers. Their intentional efforts and examples produce a dichotomy of moral belief structures. The two most prevalent in the US, known as culture these are:

1. traditional, conservative, patriarchal and;

2. liberal, expressionist, socialist, nurturant.

There is nothing inherently wrong with being under either one. Cause we most likely, are. Even if we are unconscious of its influence on us. Both groups have their own languages, traditions, moral codes, belief structures about how family life, work, money, and government's relationship with individuals.

The reason why people will continue to vote for Republicans, like McCain or why they seem to be "blind" to the obvious walking contridictions like Sara Palin is that is how they have been conditioned to think. I think it is true that early development is where you are going to learn your set of moral priorities. For example, a child growing up in a more non-traditional home would probably rate empathy as a good moral value. Therefore, liberals are more likely to support social programs that help those less fortunate. Where a paternalistic structure espouses something like moral purity. So a retributive criminal justice system makes sense to them. Evil must be punished, its a disease, and so on.

Which is why in my opinion the concept of character is so important to Americans. That we are looking for the candidates to mirror the values we care about most. We all have values, and moral structures. Culture is simply an outward expression of that taken with other factors overtime.

Lets talk about the issues, well character is an issue because it says a great deal about how their thought processes, how they reference and make decisions about external issues. Conservatives live in a constant state of attack, they are always feeling someone is at war with their values. Liberals, imo don't seem to perceive the progression of society and culture in the same light--inclusion of minorities are immoral to conservatives. Gay marriage? Immoral. Abortion? Immoral. They don't know why, it just is.

So our two sides are incompatible and we get that lovely culture war soundbite.

The US doesn't have a political culture, it is a morality war. Hope they don't win.

There is a lot of truth in what you say here. Yet I feel that you have missed the target, but only by just a little bit.

People are a product of their environment. Back in the 1960’s Stanford was involved with a number of studies on behavior. One thing that they learned was that: Children raised in a more open environment where they were encouraged to ask questions, and challenge the answers, tended to be more Liberal. While children raised in a more structured environment where they were discouraged from asking questions, and/or forbidden to challenge any of the answers, tended to be more conservative.

The Liberal tends to ask more questions. Particularly “Why not?” or maybe “What is wrong with that?” where the conservative tends to answer with “Because that is the way it has always been!” The conservatives tend to migrate towards religion, and the very strict structure of an organized church. Liberals tend to be better at thinking for them selves, where conservatives tend to rely more on simply accepting what they are told.

So we do have cultural issue here. It evolves around the culture of the “me” generation, and how they are raising (if you can call it that) their children. A whole generation who can not seem to find the time to raise their children, so they become dependent on others to raise their children for them. Yet many will insist that their children be raised with the proper values, whatever that means. Children need structure in their life, but they also need nurturing. Most churches are not very good at encouraging people to ask too many questions or even to question the answers that they are given.

It is said that insanity is hereditary. We get it from our children.

In any event. Make no mistake about it. Politics are very real. There is a very real political culture in this country. It all evolves around the question of who is better fit to govern. On the one side are the true believers, who feel that government is too important to leave in the hands of the people. On the other side are equally fervent believers who feel that a society has a responsibility to take care of their own.

Rigged · 10-13-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotair

There is a lot of truth in what you say here. Yet I feel that you have missed the target, but only by just a little bit.

Well, one can't be expected to be right all the time.

After all it just my personal opinion, which doesn't count for much.

Quote:

People are a product of their environment. Back in the 1960’s Stanford was involved with a number of studies on behavior. One thing that they learned was that: Children raised in a more open environment where they were encouraged to ask questions, and challenge the answers, tended to be more Liberal. While children raised in a more structured environment where they were discouraged from asking questions, and/or forbidden to challenge any of the answers, tended to be more conservative.

Definitely.
That is the cognitive science portion of the answer. I admit I am not an expert or even a novice in that field. I would tentatively venture to make a few very basic admonitions about some of the conclusions that studies like the ones conducted at Standford. That what they found has been cooberated by other researchers in other fields of study. For example, many authors who write on public opinion like, Philip Converse,John Zaller and Stanley Feldman, all came to similar conclusions as your Standford study. That early development, family life, religious beliefs, and education are perhaps the most fervent influences on the hierarchy of moral belief structures. The agreed upon premise being that we have been indoctrinated with the same concepts but like a deck of cards they come into play in a different order. How that order plays out in our minds is where those environmental factors become so important. When a political party comes out on a issue, that is when the hierarchy of those beliefs become so indispensable to those who know how to exploit them.

Quote:

The Liberal tends to ask more questions. Particularly “Why not?” or maybe “What is wrong with that?” where the conservative tends to answer with “Because that is the way it has always been!” The conservatives tend to migrate towards religion, and the very strict structure of an organized church. Liberals tend to be better at thinking for them selves, where conservatives tend to rely more on simply accepting what they are told.

Yup.

Quote:

So we do have cultural issue here. It evolves around the culture of the “me” generation, and how they are raising (if you can call it that) their children. A whole generation who can not seem to find the time to raise their children, so they become dependent on others to raise their children for them. Yet many will insist that their children be raised with the proper values, whatever that means. Children need structure in their life, but they also need nurturing. Most churches are not very good at encouraging people to ask too many questions or even to question the answers that they are given.

Actually on a related note, I was listening to NPR recently and they had this very funny lady on, a humorist, her name slips my mind. Anyways, she said that the biggest problem with how parents raise their children today is they do not teach them to be altruistic. That Dr. Spock (the child psychologist) who she had this discussion with said that himself. If we do not learn the value of altruism, generosity, how to be thankful, in our little family units...what does that mean for the greater society? That we raise a generations of people who do not know what it means to be charitable, empathetic, or in the conservative language, "upstanding." There is some correlations between those "values" and the strength of our communities I think. On the flip side, when those values become non existent, our communities will disappear. I think it was Menand who said " welcome to the new Gesellschaft, where monads circulate in a culture of total disconnection."

Quote:

It is said that insanity is hereditary. We get it from our children.

Eh. Modern life has made us all crazy. Society is crazy.

Quote:

In any event. Make no mistake about it. Politics are very real. There is a very real political culture in this country. It all evolves around the question of who is better fit to govern. On the one side are the true believers, who feel that government is too important to leave in the hands of the people. On the other side are equally fervent believers who feel that a society has a responsibility to take care of their own.

That is the most fundamental question of democracy--who is fit to govern. After about 200 years of back and forth we still haven't decided what we want. With each successive generation its either one-step froward or two-steps back.

ImusWallower · 11-24-2008, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicariously I

I don't know why nobody told you
how to unfold your love
I don't know how someone controlled you
they bought and sold you

The biggest problem we have is a lack of inspiration. We have no direction because the government and corporations want us focused on material shit. And it is this shit that we don't need that is blinding us from seeing the truth about our country and our lives. We are so busy working toward some unknown future that most of us don't have time for anything else, including politics.

It's much easier to believe what your parents and or friends think then to try and figure it all out on your own. Add the pride that is built into our minds in school and you have a group of young adults who now feel superior to the rest of the world despite not having EARNED anything.

The reality is we are not very different from other empires that have fallen in the past. Arrogance blinds us, apathy disconnects us and our lack of knowledge makes us vulnerable to those who would manipulate us for there own gain. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. We need inspiration, we need to remember that there is more to life then material shit and death.

this just might be the best post i have read on this site

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